• If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.

breeding Interspecies cross-breeding question

gasificada

gasificada

I have decided to try my hand at some cross-breeding next season and after having a look at the capsicum crossability matrix on the Fatalii.net Breeding Guide, I was wondering if anyone could help me out and expand on two of the keys: NG (F1 hybrids germinate normally) and PF (F1 hybrids partially fertile).

Does "F1 hybrids germinate normally" simply mean just that - that the crossed seeds should be viable and the germination rates on them should be "normal"? And if so, does it mean that the F1 should be fertile too?

And what is involved in getting a "partially fertile" F1 to re-produce?
 
Justaguy said:
I still have yet to understand F1... I am watching this to learn with you gas
Click to expand...
C'mon, teachers... we wanna learn! :D :lol:

I know this much, Justaguy, if it helps: an F1 is the first generation hybrid grown from the seeds of the crossed pod and an F2 is the second generation grown from the F1, etc.
 
I think this is useful to understand how it works.. Don't mind the animal examples :lol:


F1, F2, F3, F4, Hybrid & Purebred?

When a breeder wants to create a new breed by out crossing 2 different breeds, they normally start with the term Hybrid. Just like a Lion crossed with a Tiger would give you a Liger hybrid. For example, if we cross a Holland Lop to a Netherland Dwarf, that will produce a HYBRID.

F1 denotes breeding a purebred to another breed. The F1 specimen must have basic manifestation of the intended breed.

F2 denotes breeding a F1 to a purebred or another hybrid that is F1 or F2.

F3 denotes breeding a F2 to a purebred or another hybrid that is F2 or F3.

F4 is also known as purebred that may be offspring from breeding an F3 to a purebred or another F3. This will produce 4 generations of the intended breed on the pedigree.

Purebred is a term given to rabbits that conform to the basic requirements/standards laid down for a particular breed and with 4 generations of the breed occurrences on the pedigree.

Anyone want to try producing “teacup” Holland Lops by breeding to Netherland Dwarfs? Let’s try out an example to see if my explanation is accurate. Let’s say I have a Holland Lop I call HL1 and a Netherland Dwarf I call ND1.

1) HL1 + ND1 = F1 (Hybrid)

2) F1 + HL1 = F2

3) F2 + HL1 or F2 + F2(from another litter) = F3

4) F3 + Hl1 or F3 + F3(from another litter) = F4

I think I got it right there. What say you?
 
POTAWIE said:
"F1 hybrids germinate normally" could also imply that f2s may not always germinate normally
Click to expand...
Yeah, Pot, it seems to me that it could imply a number of things. :think:

lee said:
I think this is useful to understand how it works.. Don't mind the animal examples :lol:


F1, F2, F3, F4, Hybrid & Purebred?

When a breeder wants to create a new breed by out crossing 2 different breeds, they normally start with the term Hybrid. Just like a Lion crossed with a Tiger would give you a Liger hybrid. For example, if we cross a Holland Lop to a Netherland Dwarf, that will produce a HYBRID.

F1 denotes breeding a purebred to another breed. The F1 specimen must have basic manifestation of the intended breed.

F2 denotes breeding a F1 to a purebred or another hybrid that is F1 or F2.

F3 denotes breeding a F2 to a purebred or another hybrid that is F2 or F3.

F4 is also known as purebred that may be offspring from breeding an F3 to a purebred or another F3. This will produce 4 generations of the intended breed on the pedigree.

Purebred is a term given to rabbits that conform to the basic requirements/standards laid down for a particular breed and with 4 generations of the breed occurrences on the pedigree.

Anyone want to try producing “teacup” Holland Lops by breeding to Netherland Dwarfs? Let’s try out an example to see if my explanation is accurate. Let’s say I have a Holland Lop I call HL1 and a Netherland Dwarf I call ND1.

1) HL1 + ND1 = F1 (Hybrid)

2) F1 + HL1 = F2

3) F2 + HL1 or F2 + F2(from another litter) = F3

4) F3 + Hl1 or F3 + F3(from another litter) = F4

I think I got it right there. What say you?
Click to expand...
Thanks, lee! Very informative and probably as clear as one could make it! :D

(Although it didn't answer my questions.... :P :lol:)
 
But I've never seen a plant cross stabalized in 4 years. Most say 4-8 years to stabalize but I always say 6-10. Also with plants you can inbreed with the same plant and flower and not have to look for "another litter" Just isolate the desired plants each year and save seeds until they breed 100% true
 
POTAWIE said:
Also with plants you can inbreed with the same plant and flower and not have to look for "another litter" Just isolate the desired plants each year and save seeds until they breed 100% true
Click to expand...
Ah, yes, I was wondering about that and thought it was the case!

Which is better for stabilizing a hybrid? Inbreeding?

I am only assuming here but in terms of hopefully keeping the next generation as close as possible to the current generation, I'm guessing that inbreeding would be the way to go?
 
You have to inbreed to stabalize, there is no other way
There is no way to keep the hybrid closer to the current generation without selecting desired characteristics for many years, and possible back-crosses and even then it isn't easy
 
POTAWIE said:
You have to inbreed to stabalize, there is no other way
There is no way to keep the hybrid closer to the current generation without selective breeding for many years, and possible back-crosses and even then it isn't easy
Click to expand...
Sounds like a job and a half! :lol:

For the time being, I only want to cross-breed purely for experimental purposes. Although, I am hoping for at least one of my hybrids to show some real potential and maybe have a crack at stabilization (or at the very least, grow out a few generations).
 
Its not complicated really. You cross 2 plants which is the difficult part, and then you isolate the most desirable plants each year and save seeds until they breed true.
 
(F1 hybrids germinate normally) means you'll have simliar germination rates as the parents

F1 hybrids partially fertile). means you either you won't get a lot of seeds and/or they won't have high germination rates
 
yeah but with peppers if I am correct you can cross pollinate and the pepper that grows will be like any other on that plant, but the one you cross pollinate will produce seeds to grow what you desire. So you won't even know until the following harvest. I would love to know if an indoor setup with the needed high power lights and spectrums and timers could be used to grow out in a shorter season? Thereby allowing one to grow say 4 generations in 2.5-3 years.
 
Justaguy said:
yeah but with peppers if I am correct you can cross pollinate and the pepper that grows will be like any other on that plant, but the one you cross pollinate will produce seeds to grow what you desire. So you won't even know until the following harvest. I would love to know if an indoor setup with the needed high power lights and spectrums and timers could be used to grow out in a shorter season? Thereby allowing one to grow say 4 generations in 2.5-3 years.
Click to expand...

Well it would depend on the maturity length of the peppers. But let's say it's 120 days. Other than dormancy problems which can usually be overcome with a refridgerator/freezer or in New Orleans and "ice box", you could have 3 seasons per year particularly if you crossed the first blossoms of the the season.
 
regarding the indoor forced fruits,

there have been indicators of some photoperiodism in peppers

but some will say the peppers are not day length sensitive

if you have the means and patience it may be a good strategy to try

the many extra seasons indoors approach, it will help to keep those pesky insects

from giving you the unknown source pollen at least
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top