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If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.
pics Cold Garage Germination/Grow (Construction Complete! Now with Pics!)
- Thread starter MGOLD86
- Start date
Ok so the quoting setup I had wasn't working so I will just put the quotes in bold and my replies under them
Flakes'
HPS bulbs suck for peppers - at least in my experience. You don't need it for the plants to keep producing, MH does the trick. I currently have about 60 pepper plants (1 year old+) under one 400w MH bulb and they're doing fine and producing peppers just fine - probably not as many of them as possible or as big as during the summer, but I'm on a budget.
So, that's about 2m x 2m (40 square feet).
oh wow, with my 1 400w MH bulb I figure can get 4x4 really effective growing area, and then I have the LED which can supplement the 3X3 area when I need it, but it would still have light from the HID
a few qestions, what is your setup like, and how big are the pots you put the mature plants into? I am still unclear as to what size is a good size for a grown pepper plant, some people have them in 2gallon containers, and some have them in massive 5gallon buckets,where is your setup, and how cold is it normally in the room outside the grow area, and do you need heaters or thermostats and stuff ?
'MGOLD86'
EDIT: Sorry if this is a bit all over the place, I am drinking coffee and listening to Skrillex. Kind of a dangerous combo...
Max,
First off,
to the site. No worries about your post, I'm getting ready to switch to a grow log and it is probably better to keep this going with questions and solutions for people with our situations. The wife is off doing wife things today, so that means I have about 5 hours of CoD time, BUT after scanning the post I went 3 games averaging about 7-15 and decided to STOP getting PWND by 12 year olds on Christmas break and read and respond before getting back to the slaying...
haha I know what you mean, I have been off of xbox with COD and BF3 most of the time since I started this project until I figure out how exactly I will be setting up everything .. SO I am going to break this up so it is easier to read, and thank you for the reply! I know how frustrating it can be trying to post while trying to get some gaming time in, you just want to slap those little kids that curse worse than me as long as their moms are not around hah
MGOLD86
1. What are you currently growing in/on? I know you said you were going to post pics, and that may give us a bit of a better idea.
here are some pics that will explain this, I started out with just the CFL lights and the panel was closer and the plants were doing pretty well for the most part, the leaves were turning a little purple on the Tepins and stuff, and later when I added the LED, more of them turned purple/red and I found out it was because I was frying them, even though the temp was ok, I guess it was just too close, so here are some pics of the setup I have now, most of them are recovering, and I put in a few seeds in the ones that got fried as backups, I plan on taking off the mesh things case things I potted them in originally, and also switching to red solo cups so I can fit more under the LED light, the ones in there now are just too wide for no real reason since the plants are tiny
(there is a little 6" fan clamped onto the front near the plastic area that I turn on when the lights are on, it is moved down so I keep the temp around 80 in there, if it's closer it drops it down to 65 or so)
MGOLD86
2. What is the TOTAL amount of plants you are planning on starting (the 12-14 you are bringing in, 20 maters, and 20-30 others)?
Um, honestly I have no clue, I posted the list in there somewhere, it might have been on a later post or is lost in the novel somewhere lol, but here it is, I don't have the chocolate habs or the fatalii peppers yet, I should have them today or tomorrow and these will be part of the ones I will be bringing back in next winter
ah, yea I edited it in, it was lost in the large post I made, but here is the section that I posted before
---I almost forgot, but these are the peppers I will be growing, I am curious to know if there are any particular needs for any of the plants, or which ones grow in some setup or another, like I have heard that Tepins don't like full sunlight, or at least people tend to put them on the outside of their grow area. I have only grown the cherry bomb peppers, and Bulgarian carrots but that was out in the garden, but anyways here are the peppers I am/and will be growing Tepins, Bulgarian Carrots, Hottie Hybrids (a habanero hybrid) Red Caribbeans, Jamaican Hot Chocolates (chocolate habs right?), Pretty Purple Pepper, Big Bomb Hybrid, Congo Trinidad, Cherry Bomb Hybrid, Fatalii. I will be only keeping some of these in pots for next winter, I am definitely going to be keeping at least 1 of the following; the chocolate habs, red Caribbean, Bulgarian carrots, tepins, fatalii, and the rest I will see once I grow them and see which ones I like more.. pretty much all of them except for the cherry peppers, but the total will be about 12-14 if I can---
with that said, I don't mind having peppers that are producing peppers and flowering a while before spring, I would love it if I could have plants that are good to go once I can stick in them in the soil, as long as I have the room
'MGOLD86'
4. What is the guestemated temps your basement will achieve when it is insulated, also when will it be done?
Um, honestly I am not sure, I will have to talk to my dad about it more, but he works about 12-16 hours and on sats too, but since it is now about 55-60 degrees down there and there are a few holes leading out to the garage and outside, and it's about 20-30 degrees here outside now, I would assume after blocking those areas off.. it should be around 65 degrees down there or so, I would be great if it was warmer, but honestly the house is normally 60-62 until we build a fire in the wood stove which brings it up to 70-72 or so.. oil/heating costs in CT.. as well as electricity is crazy (about .20c per kwh now, .10c for power, and .10c for generation costs, it's nuts)
'MGOLD86
These will help in the future but I guess right now I would say to just take a step back and look at what you have, and decide to use only what you NEED. LEDs, CFLs, HIDs, etc are all nice to have, but can destroy a grow if not used together properly. Your 400w MH light is great, and I think it will cover like a 3x3 or 4x4 area ideally, however, if you are not going to be using all of the room either scale the box down or concentrate all of your plants within the ideal grow area (use mylar or space blankets to help bounce the lights and such). A 5x4 box may be too big to COMPLETELY cover the box with optimum grow space, however, just skoot your plants a few inches in toward the center instead of giving them a ton of space. I am not knowledgeable enough to recommend augmenting the CFLs or LEDs to this setup, but the one thing I know is the more plugged in, the more out of your wallet. There is a difference between a 400W MH running 18/6 and a MH/LED/HEATER/CFLS/GERM MATS/FANS/TOASTER OVEN running 18/6. Just something to think about.
yea I completely understand, which is why I want to get this all figured out since I have already spent too much just going out and getting a bunch of different CFLs before just admitting that I need an HID and a proper setup, I don't mind using the HID, with the LED (the LED mainly focusing on a smaller area on the side that may not get as much light as the ones right under the HID, and the LED only runs 130w with the equivalent to a 400w HID, and I know it says that for mainly marketing, but I talked to my biology professor who is a botanist and runs the green house at school and he has used the XtreemeLED system that I got and he said it works great for a smaller area like 3x3, or more likely 2x2, even for getting plants to produce fruit ect..)
as far as heat and stuff, that is why I really wanted to figure out a thermostat on/off power strip like I explained before, to help cut down on costs, I would much rather have something like the 100-150w ceramic heat lamp which I know puts off a good amount of heat, in conjunction with the fan I have to turn the air around to only run when it drops below a specific temp. the 1500w that those space heaters pull (and I don't really know if they actually pull that much all the time, but it can't be less than 150w I would think) to be running all the time, just seems to be using a lot of extra power, and I don't mind spending the extra $30 to get it to turn on and off when it needs to.. they works great for my snake cage, I love them.
so really in total, ideally, I would have 1 400w MH light running all night with an exhaust fan that would turn on when the temp reaches.. say 87 on the top of the canopy, (it would actually turn on when it gets to about 2 degrees within the set temp according to the label on the thermostat) and then I would have a little 6" osculating fan running.. I think 24/7 if I need to, I don't know how much power that little thing pulls, but it can't be much and the 150w ceramic lamp pointed to the opposite wall with the fan near it to push that air around.. again connected to a separate thermostat so that it comes on when the temp hits 73 or something, those space heaters I just checked out pull at a low settings about 900w and are mainly made to cover a larger area than 4x4 or 6x6 insulated tent, which is great and I will use one if the ceramic heat lamp doesn't do the job, but for since it keeps my snakes 90gallon (about 3x2x2)cage which is next to a window at 85 degrees, I think it might work.. which would be great for me so I can save some money.
'MGOLD86'
Your second option (The grow tent) is HUGE and will take a lot more than what you have to get it going and keep it going year around. If you are planning on only keeping 12-14 plants, you do not need a 6x6 tent. I dont know what you do for money, but I would say it is going to get extremely expensive very quick.
well I was thinking about that, and my fear is that if I want to keep say 14-20 plants.. and start out 60 new plants every near.. I might need and, and I really really don't want to buy another set up, I would rather just buy an extra 400w MH/HPS light kit for next year if I need it.. 1 to keep the plants that I have in pots, and 1 to eventually grow the new ones I will put into the garden... and I will only be using the until the spring.. once spring comes around I will be moving them outside.. even the ones in pots. although I may keep the ones in pots inside a little outdoor greenhouse that we have just to keep them out of the elements and see how they do.. or something I'm not sure..
'MGOLD86'
As for the heat, I still recommend a thermo controlled space heater. I was at SEARS yesterday and they had a dozen options all for under 50 bucks. I am not 100% on if they only turn on when they hit the tgt temp or what, but if you set it for a certain temp, then you should be good.
yea am looking at those online, I will have to go and ask them if they shut off when they reach a specific temp, or if they just blow out the set temp.. because like I said, even at a low setting of 900w, running say.. 6 hours a day or so is going to be $30 a month for me just to run, as opposed to the ceramic heat lamp, which even if it has to run all 6 hours to keep the temp above 73 or something, is only $5.40 a month
'MGOLD86'
To wrap things up I would just say, keep it as simple as possible. No need for secondary trip thermos, on/off space valves, and stuff, when your light comes in, put it up, run it for a while, mark the temps and augment with either heat or airflow. You should be off to the races in no time.
One more thing, people do this in their bedroom with shop lights and grandma's quilt, plants want to grow and all they need is a bit of heat water and light.
Im off, I think instead of getting killed by children waiting for Santa im gonna head to the range and shoot some santa targets!
Post some pics and ill be back a bit later.
Matt
yea I know, and unfortunately I tend to like to do things thoroughly and well with anything I invest money and time into, so even though I could easily just get like 3-4, 4' duel grow lamp setups, and set it up somewhere and I am sure they would grow, but I would rather do it well, and have them grow really well and eventually be able to grow 15-20 plants and then every year to start about 40 plants or so grow enough to stick them in the garden come spring ready to produce fruit just about.. just like the ones I normally buy from the store where most have flowers on them and some have fruit
oh and that's funny about the target shooting, I have a 44mag hunting rifle I use to shoot very very rarely, but this summer my brother got me into target shooting more so I went out and got a 10/22 ruger rifle and outfitted it with a bunch of tactical stuff, including bipod, 16x zoom scope, new stock and I absolutely love it haha, I just go out and shoot about 700 rounds with my buddy. and it's great because the .22 rounds are soo cheap.. the 44mag would cost about $50 per 40 rounds, so I tended to stay away from shooting that,
anyways thanks for the help, and I may seem stubborn sometimes to doing it my way, but that is in no way mean that I am not open to any suggestions and input, I figure more info and experiences will only make my final setup better..
and after looking at cost of insulation boards, the cheapest being $10 a peice, and since we would need.. I'd say at least 10 to do anything with the area I want, I may just get the 6x6 tent, and I know you said it is probably way to big, but like I said I would rather have something that is a little bigger and use the smaller area than have something too small and not be able to fit everything I want.. with the bigger area I may have my small rack area to use to germination
anyways, thanks a lot again, hopefully this helps with me breaking it up more
Flakes'
HPS bulbs suck for peppers - at least in my experience. You don't need it for the plants to keep producing, MH does the trick. I currently have about 60 pepper plants (1 year old+) under one 400w MH bulb and they're doing fine and producing peppers just fine - probably not as many of them as possible or as big as during the summer, but I'm on a budget.
So, that's about 2m x 2m (40 square feet).
oh wow, with my 1 400w MH bulb I figure can get 4x4 really effective growing area, and then I have the LED which can supplement the 3X3 area when I need it, but it would still have light from the HID
a few qestions, what is your setup like, and how big are the pots you put the mature plants into? I am still unclear as to what size is a good size for a grown pepper plant, some people have them in 2gallon containers, and some have them in massive 5gallon buckets,where is your setup, and how cold is it normally in the room outside the grow area, and do you need heaters or thermostats and stuff ?
'MGOLD86'
EDIT: Sorry if this is a bit all over the place, I am drinking coffee and listening to Skrillex. Kind of a dangerous combo...
Max,
First off,
to the site. No worries about your post, I'm getting ready to switch to a grow log and it is probably better to keep this going with questions and solutions for people with our situations. The wife is off doing wife things today, so that means I have about 5 hours of CoD time, BUT after scanning the post I went 3 games averaging about 7-15 and decided to STOP getting PWND by 12 year olds on Christmas break and read and respond before getting back to the slaying...haha I know what you mean, I have been off of xbox with COD and BF3 most of the time since I started this project until I figure out how exactly I will be setting up everything .. SO I am going to break this up so it is easier to read, and thank you for the reply! I know how frustrating it can be trying to post while trying to get some gaming time in, you just want to slap those little kids that curse worse than me as long as their moms are not around hah
MGOLD86
1. What are you currently growing in/on? I know you said you were going to post pics, and that may give us a bit of a better idea.
here are some pics that will explain this, I started out with just the CFL lights and the panel was closer and the plants were doing pretty well for the most part, the leaves were turning a little purple on the Tepins and stuff, and later when I added the LED, more of them turned purple/red and I found out it was because I was frying them, even though the temp was ok, I guess it was just too close, so here are some pics of the setup I have now, most of them are recovering, and I put in a few seeds in the ones that got fried as backups, I plan on taking off the mesh things case things I potted them in originally, and also switching to red solo cups so I can fit more under the LED light, the ones in there now are just too wide for no real reason since the plants are tiny
(there is a little 6" fan clamped onto the front near the plastic area that I turn on when the lights are on, it is moved down so I keep the temp around 80 in there, if it's closer it drops it down to 65 or so)
MGOLD86
2. What is the TOTAL amount of plants you are planning on starting (the 12-14 you are bringing in, 20 maters, and 20-30 others)?
Um, honestly I have no clue, I posted the list in there somewhere, it might have been on a later post or is lost in the novel somewhere lol, but here it is, I don't have the chocolate habs or the fatalii peppers yet, I should have them today or tomorrow and these will be part of the ones I will be bringing back in next winter
ah, yea I edited it in, it was lost in the large post I made, but here is the section that I posted before
---I almost forgot, but these are the peppers I will be growing, I am curious to know if there are any particular needs for any of the plants, or which ones grow in some setup or another, like I have heard that Tepins don't like full sunlight, or at least people tend to put them on the outside of their grow area. I have only grown the cherry bomb peppers, and Bulgarian carrots but that was out in the garden, but anyways here are the peppers I am/and will be growing Tepins, Bulgarian Carrots, Hottie Hybrids (a habanero hybrid) Red Caribbeans, Jamaican Hot Chocolates (chocolate habs right?), Pretty Purple Pepper, Big Bomb Hybrid, Congo Trinidad, Cherry Bomb Hybrid, Fatalii. I will be only keeping some of these in pots for next winter, I am definitely going to be keeping at least 1 of the following; the chocolate habs, red Caribbean, Bulgarian carrots, tepins, fatalii, and the rest I will see once I grow them and see which ones I like more.. pretty much all of them except for the cherry peppers, but the total will be about 12-14 if I can---
with that said, I don't mind having peppers that are producing peppers and flowering a while before spring, I would love it if I could have plants that are good to go once I can stick in them in the soil, as long as I have the room
'MGOLD86'
4. What is the guestemated temps your basement will achieve when it is insulated, also when will it be done?
Um, honestly I am not sure, I will have to talk to my dad about it more, but he works about 12-16 hours and on sats too, but since it is now about 55-60 degrees down there and there are a few holes leading out to the garage and outside, and it's about 20-30 degrees here outside now, I would assume after blocking those areas off.. it should be around 65 degrees down there or so, I would be great if it was warmer, but honestly the house is normally 60-62 until we build a fire in the wood stove which brings it up to 70-72 or so.. oil/heating costs in CT.. as well as electricity is crazy (about .20c per kwh now, .10c for power, and .10c for generation costs, it's nuts)
'MGOLD86
These will help in the future but I guess right now I would say to just take a step back and look at what you have, and decide to use only what you NEED. LEDs, CFLs, HIDs, etc are all nice to have, but can destroy a grow if not used together properly. Your 400w MH light is great, and I think it will cover like a 3x3 or 4x4 area ideally, however, if you are not going to be using all of the room either scale the box down or concentrate all of your plants within the ideal grow area (use mylar or space blankets to help bounce the lights and such). A 5x4 box may be too big to COMPLETELY cover the box with optimum grow space, however, just skoot your plants a few inches in toward the center instead of giving them a ton of space. I am not knowledgeable enough to recommend augmenting the CFLs or LEDs to this setup, but the one thing I know is the more plugged in, the more out of your wallet. There is a difference between a 400W MH running 18/6 and a MH/LED/HEATER/CFLS/GERM MATS/FANS/TOASTER OVEN running 18/6. Just something to think about.
yea I completely understand, which is why I want to get this all figured out since I have already spent too much just going out and getting a bunch of different CFLs before just admitting that I need an HID and a proper setup, I don't mind using the HID, with the LED (the LED mainly focusing on a smaller area on the side that may not get as much light as the ones right under the HID, and the LED only runs 130w with the equivalent to a 400w HID, and I know it says that for mainly marketing, but I talked to my biology professor who is a botanist and runs the green house at school and he has used the XtreemeLED system that I got and he said it works great for a smaller area like 3x3, or more likely 2x2, even for getting plants to produce fruit ect..)
as far as heat and stuff, that is why I really wanted to figure out a thermostat on/off power strip like I explained before, to help cut down on costs, I would much rather have something like the 100-150w ceramic heat lamp which I know puts off a good amount of heat, in conjunction with the fan I have to turn the air around to only run when it drops below a specific temp. the 1500w that those space heaters pull (and I don't really know if they actually pull that much all the time, but it can't be less than 150w I would think) to be running all the time, just seems to be using a lot of extra power, and I don't mind spending the extra $30 to get it to turn on and off when it needs to.. they works great for my snake cage, I love them.
so really in total, ideally, I would have 1 400w MH light running all night with an exhaust fan that would turn on when the temp reaches.. say 87 on the top of the canopy, (it would actually turn on when it gets to about 2 degrees within the set temp according to the label on the thermostat) and then I would have a little 6" osculating fan running.. I think 24/7 if I need to, I don't know how much power that little thing pulls, but it can't be much and the 150w ceramic lamp pointed to the opposite wall with the fan near it to push that air around.. again connected to a separate thermostat so that it comes on when the temp hits 73 or something, those space heaters I just checked out pull at a low settings about 900w and are mainly made to cover a larger area than 4x4 or 6x6 insulated tent, which is great and I will use one if the ceramic heat lamp doesn't do the job, but for since it keeps my snakes 90gallon (about 3x2x2)cage which is next to a window at 85 degrees, I think it might work.. which would be great for me so I can save some money.
'MGOLD86'
Your second option (The grow tent) is HUGE and will take a lot more than what you have to get it going and keep it going year around. If you are planning on only keeping 12-14 plants, you do not need a 6x6 tent. I dont know what you do for money, but I would say it is going to get extremely expensive very quick.
well I was thinking about that, and my fear is that if I want to keep say 14-20 plants.. and start out 60 new plants every near.. I might need and, and I really really don't want to buy another set up, I would rather just buy an extra 400w MH/HPS light kit for next year if I need it.. 1 to keep the plants that I have in pots, and 1 to eventually grow the new ones I will put into the garden... and I will only be using the until the spring.. once spring comes around I will be moving them outside.. even the ones in pots. although I may keep the ones in pots inside a little outdoor greenhouse that we have just to keep them out of the elements and see how they do.. or something I'm not sure..
'MGOLD86'
As for the heat, I still recommend a thermo controlled space heater. I was at SEARS yesterday and they had a dozen options all for under 50 bucks. I am not 100% on if they only turn on when they hit the tgt temp or what, but if you set it for a certain temp, then you should be good.
yea am looking at those online, I will have to go and ask them if they shut off when they reach a specific temp, or if they just blow out the set temp.. because like I said, even at a low setting of 900w, running say.. 6 hours a day or so is going to be $30 a month for me just to run, as opposed to the ceramic heat lamp, which even if it has to run all 6 hours to keep the temp above 73 or something, is only $5.40 a month
'MGOLD86'
To wrap things up I would just say, keep it as simple as possible. No need for secondary trip thermos, on/off space valves, and stuff, when your light comes in, put it up, run it for a while, mark the temps and augment with either heat or airflow. You should be off to the races in no time.
One more thing, people do this in their bedroom with shop lights and grandma's quilt, plants want to grow and all they need is a bit of heat water and light.
Im off, I think instead of getting killed by children waiting for Santa im gonna head to the range and shoot some santa targets!
Post some pics and ill be back a bit later.
Matt
yea I know, and unfortunately I tend to like to do things thoroughly and well with anything I invest money and time into, so even though I could easily just get like 3-4, 4' duel grow lamp setups, and set it up somewhere and I am sure they would grow, but I would rather do it well, and have them grow really well and eventually be able to grow 15-20 plants and then every year to start about 40 plants or so grow enough to stick them in the garden come spring ready to produce fruit just about.. just like the ones I normally buy from the store where most have flowers on them and some have fruit
oh and that's funny about the target shooting, I have a 44mag hunting rifle I use to shoot very very rarely, but this summer my brother got me into target shooting more so I went out and got a 10/22 ruger rifle and outfitted it with a bunch of tactical stuff, including bipod, 16x zoom scope, new stock and I absolutely love it haha, I just go out and shoot about 700 rounds with my buddy. and it's great because the .22 rounds are soo cheap.. the 44mag would cost about $50 per 40 rounds, so I tended to stay away from shooting that,
anyways thanks for the help, and I may seem stubborn sometimes to doing it my way, but that is in no way mean that I am not open to any suggestions and input, I figure more info and experiences will only make my final setup better..
and after looking at cost of insulation boards, the cheapest being $10 a peice, and since we would need.. I'd say at least 10 to do anything with the area I want, I may just get the 6x6 tent, and I know you said it is probably way to big, but like I said I would rather have something that is a little bigger and use the smaller area than have something too small and not be able to fit everything I want.. with the bigger area I may have my small rack area to use to germination
anyways, thanks a lot again, hopefully this helps with me breaking it up more
I am not saying not to be thorough, I am just saying that you don't need to bring a gun to a knife fight. Just for perspective, I am going to be starting about 150 plants in my 5x5 tent next month. I cant grow them all to fruit in there, but 5x5 is going to be more than enough room for 150 3 month old plants. If you are looking to harvest indoors (Which is not my desire, or reason for starting this thread) then we are on separate pages.
The plants to get a decent harvest should be in pots at least 5 gallons, which is on avg 10" in diameter. Lets say you want to have 12 plants for fruiting, you would need about 30" across x 40" to have 3 rows of 4 pots. That is if you place them right next to each other, which wont happen if you are harvesting. You would want anywhere between 8" to 3' in between the pots (depending on the room you need to walk around and harvest, water, feed, and prune). So redo the dimensions and you are now somewhere between 52"x72" to way way bigger. Basically, you are going to have an extremely tough time fitting all what you want in something 5x3, 6x4 or even 6x6. You have options, overwinter vs grow, smaller pots, or bigger space. But all have a serious drawback. Overwintering wont give you a harvest, just a jump start on the next season. Smaller pots means smaller root spread which means smaller plant size/restricted harvest. A bigger grow area can be a hit on the wallet in all that is included, as well as floor space. Have you considered space requirements for full grown plants?
I am not trying to talk you out of it, I just dont think you have considered the size of full grown fruiting plants, I would even say that your second tent option will be tight for 12 plants. There is a huge difference between growing indoors and starting plants. Ive seen guys start hundreds in a 3 or 4 foot space, but that same space could only accommodate one fruiting plant.
As a disclaimer, I could be way off, so if anyone is growing and harvesting indoors feel free to chime in. I am just going off of the dozens of threads on here that show full grown plants in tents/rooms. Also, (someone is gonna get all butt hurt about this) go to any "medical" marijuana grow site and check them out. They have entire bedrooms for 12 plants.
Like I said, you may be planning everything to a T, but you need to actually look at people who are doing this right now. Everything looks great on paper, but it rarely ends up like that.
The plants to get a decent harvest should be in pots at least 5 gallons, which is on avg 10" in diameter. Lets say you want to have 12 plants for fruiting, you would need about 30" across x 40" to have 3 rows of 4 pots. That is if you place them right next to each other, which wont happen if you are harvesting. You would want anywhere between 8" to 3' in between the pots (depending on the room you need to walk around and harvest, water, feed, and prune). So redo the dimensions and you are now somewhere between 52"x72" to way way bigger. Basically, you are going to have an extremely tough time fitting all what you want in something 5x3, 6x4 or even 6x6. You have options, overwinter vs grow, smaller pots, or bigger space. But all have a serious drawback. Overwintering wont give you a harvest, just a jump start on the next season. Smaller pots means smaller root spread which means smaller plant size/restricted harvest. A bigger grow area can be a hit on the wallet in all that is included, as well as floor space. Have you considered space requirements for full grown plants?
I am not trying to talk you out of it, I just dont think you have considered the size of full grown fruiting plants, I would even say that your second tent option will be tight for 12 plants. There is a huge difference between growing indoors and starting plants. Ive seen guys start hundreds in a 3 or 4 foot space, but that same space could only accommodate one fruiting plant.
As a disclaimer, I could be way off, so if anyone is growing and harvesting indoors feel free to chime in. I am just going off of the dozens of threads on here that show full grown plants in tents/rooms. Also, (someone is gonna get all butt hurt about this) go to any "medical" marijuana grow site and check them out. They have entire bedrooms for 12 plants.
Like I said, you may be planning everything to a T, but you need to actually look at people who are doing this right now. Everything looks great on paper, but it rarely ends up like that.
oh really? man I guess my ideas on how many plants I can actually fit into an area is way off, I was just thinking about that too, and thinking about the size of the pots that you get when you buy the pepper plants in the store.
also I just got my 400w HID kit which I did not realize how big that thing actually is, but it's sweet, right now I am definitely leaning towards getting a grow tent, when you say that 6X6 is way to big, do you mean too big to hold heat in, or just bigger than I need it to be, because if it can hold the heat in with a little ceramic heater, I don't mind, and even then I will still keep the plants as close to the center as possible, but I like the idea of having a small area extra that I can use if I need to, or decide to keep more plants, and thank you about the ebay suggestion, I don't mind buying stuff from there, but I am skeptical about some things unless other people have good experience buying them, but I found a 6x6x6 tent for $150 shipped, and the smaller 4x4 ones are like $120-130 so for $20 extra bucks I get a good amount of more room.
also since you already have your grow hut set up, are those poles that are holding the light up pretty strong? the kit I have has a bigger hood, but it's actually not too heavy, I would think like.. .10lbs or something.. but I was thinking about that, with that, and the LED which is probably about 15lbs, if it would be sturdy enough, without me having to try to add some support to it
and last thing, when you say 150 seedlings, how would you set that up, just put all those on the ground, or something or would you use a shelf kind of setup where you could have different tiers (I think you were talking about building something like that before, but I can't remember, maybe it was someone else)
also I just got my 400w HID kit which I did not realize how big that thing actually is, but it's sweet, right now I am definitely leaning towards getting a grow tent, when you say that 6X6 is way to big, do you mean too big to hold heat in, or just bigger than I need it to be, because if it can hold the heat in with a little ceramic heater, I don't mind, and even then I will still keep the plants as close to the center as possible, but I like the idea of having a small area extra that I can use if I need to, or decide to keep more plants, and thank you about the ebay suggestion, I don't mind buying stuff from there, but I am skeptical about some things unless other people have good experience buying them, but I found a 6x6x6 tent for $150 shipped, and the smaller 4x4 ones are like $120-130 so for $20 extra bucks I get a good amount of more room.
also since you already have your grow hut set up, are those poles that are holding the light up pretty strong? the kit I have has a bigger hood, but it's actually not too heavy, I would think like.. .10lbs or something.. but I was thinking about that, with that, and the LED which is probably about 15lbs, if it would be sturdy enough, without me having to try to add some support to it
and last thing, when you say 150 seedlings, how would you set that up, just put all those on the ground, or something or would you use a shelf kind of setup where you could have different tiers (I think you were talking about building something like that before, but I can't remember, maybe it was someone else)
If you were to try to set up for germinating and seedlings, I would concentrate them around/under the light. I am going to be building a horseshoe table about hip high and it will give me enough room to move around and reach everything. All my plants will be in trays until they get too big and then they will go into #1 pots at the biggest. For you you can do this for your before harvest setup. After harvest, you are going to need to change everything to accommodate the full grown plants, and I really dont see you having enough room to germinate/grow and harvest (read my last response) without cutting down on the number of full grown. I would say somewhere in the neighborhood of like 3-4 at the MOST to have enough room to still germinate for the successive seasons. And that is just a guess.
You are kind of in a catch 22. That tent would be too big for 50 or so seedlings and too small for 12 plants. An option would be to convert the basement into a growroom, use the box that you already have to germinate and grow seedlings, and use a tent to grow the mature plants, or choose one or the other.
As far as the strength, the bars seem pretty sturdy. No swing or give for my setup. One last thing, if you go with a 6'+ tent the 400w is going to be too weak, and 2 may be tough to work together to keep in sync with heat output and stuff. A 600 or 1000w dimmable may be a better option for a tent that size.
You are kind of in a catch 22. That tent would be too big for 50 or so seedlings and too small for 12 plants. An option would be to convert the basement into a growroom, use the box that you already have to germinate and grow seedlings, and use a tent to grow the mature plants, or choose one or the other.
As far as the strength, the bars seem pretty sturdy. No swing or give for my setup. One last thing, if you go with a 6'+ tent the 400w is going to be too weak, and 2 may be tough to work together to keep in sync with heat output and stuff. A 600 or 1000w dimmable may be a better option for a tent that size.
hm, In that case, I will keep the germination section in the little shelve setup I have now, I could fit the all of the baby plants into there until they get to about 6" or so, then I can move them down to the grow tent, and use the CFL lights in addition to help with the light for the smaller plants with the LED light, and next year I wouldn't mind having the LED and 2 400w HID kits, if I need to, and as far as heat, I really like the setup I got http://www.virtualsunhydroponics.com/Agricultural/products/VS400MS.asp?rt=2 because the whole hood is enclosed with exception to the vents, which I can have the 2 hoods connected to each other with vent ducting and going through the vent and so when the fan turns on, it will do what it will be set up for soon, which is suck air out through the vents, and therefore the tent, and suck cooler air in through one of the other vents which I want to get a cheap $12 air vent valve thing or something like that, not sure how I am going to work that out yet..
I would love to have my whole basement as a grow room, but there is other junk in there and I don't have the money to do anything past the grow tent and a few instruments to set that up for now at least, but the shelves I have now I have setup so that there are those lights, and after Christmas, I am moving that to the southern facing windows so I can lift up the front white plastic cover, and there is a clear plastic cover over that to keep the warmth in, but they can get full sunlight during the day, I am going to keep the plants I have now in there anyways until they get to about 10" or so, or until I have to move them when I start the other plants in january.. and for those I can always just go out and get a couple florescent tubes or just use a few of the 5-6 150w replacement CFLs I have now, which are about 42w of power, and the 6.5k ones are 100w replacements with about 32w of power but they each put out about 2k lumens, and I have a big 300w replacement using 68w that puts out about 4.2k lumens but that doesn't really matter right now..
anyways, just so I am clear, how much space do you guys think the 400w HID can cover.. about 4x4'? effectively and anything past that is OK but will need supplemental light? and about how high above the plants does it have to be to cover the 4x4'? thats the one thing I have had trouble finding online, they show it for 1000w light bulb kits on the website where I got my light, but not for 400w which is kit of annoying
and can't wait to see your full setup and especially how you arrange your tent/plants
I would love to have my whole basement as a grow room, but there is other junk in there and I don't have the money to do anything past the grow tent and a few instruments to set that up for now at least, but the shelves I have now I have setup so that there are those lights, and after Christmas, I am moving that to the southern facing windows so I can lift up the front white plastic cover, and there is a clear plastic cover over that to keep the warmth in, but they can get full sunlight during the day, I am going to keep the plants I have now in there anyways until they get to about 10" or so, or until I have to move them when I start the other plants in january.. and for those I can always just go out and get a couple florescent tubes or just use a few of the 5-6 150w replacement CFLs I have now, which are about 42w of power, and the 6.5k ones are 100w replacements with about 32w of power but they each put out about 2k lumens, and I have a big 300w replacement using 68w that puts out about 4.2k lumens but that doesn't really matter right now..
anyways, just so I am clear, how much space do you guys think the 400w HID can cover.. about 4x4'? effectively and anything past that is OK but will need supplemental light? and about how high above the plants does it have to be to cover the 4x4'? thats the one thing I have had trouble finding online, they show it for 1000w light bulb kits on the website where I got my light, but not for 400w which is kit of annoying
and can't wait to see your full setup and especially how you arrange your tent/plants
Really simple setup - a basement room, a reflector hanging from the ceiling and hooked up to a 400w ballast, a 50w oscillating fan. No mylar, no tents, no nothing. The plants are mostly in 2-5 gallon pots/buckets and some have been cut back and are in smaller pots. Right now the light is on a 16/8 cycle, but 12 hours is plenty just to keep them healthy. The fan is on about 30% of the time, on and off (turned on for longer periods while the lights are on) and is set to low (has three settings). The termostat (central heating) is set to 60 degrees fahrenheit (15 celsius) but the room does get a bit warmer while the lights are on. I don't have any additional heaters/termostats dedicated to the grow area (room). In my experience, anything above freezing and the peppers will survive, but a bit of heat is good to keep them growing faster and for faster water evaporation etc.
Now, 400w might not be optimal fo such a big area, but there is such a thing as too much light. My goal is to keep the plants alive through winter and to keep at least most of them producing some peppers. But for a 4'x4' area, I think 400-600w HID is the maximum I'd go. Some of my plants that were directly under the HPS got completely bleached (even though they were 15-20 inches away from the bulb) and I can't imagine how you'd keep a 1000w + light source from doing the same in a relatively small growing area. If anything, I'd add some more diffuse light sources like a couple of CFLs.
Basically, 4x4 is about as big as you wanna go for the best use of the light. Anything bigger will need supplement. As far as height, put your hand at leaf height, if it burns the back of your hand its too low. Scientific.
But honestly, you got so many numbers going on, im about as lost as ever. If you got it down, then you are better than I. I
too much to get hung up on that stuff. Flakes makes a good point, as long as you dont go below freezing you should be good. If you run your lights during the night when it is coldest, I am sure you will be fine. I am in an uninsulated garage that gets 20 every night, your in a garage that drops to 60. You are already better off. Remember, when you plant out you are only waiting for the last frost, not 80 degree weather.haha, yea thanks guys, that actually makes me feel a lot better, I am set on getting the 6x6 tent right now, just waiting for a little bit, going to convince my parents to split it with me for a Christmas gift, since me dad was going to get all of the foam insulation stuff to make the box that I had originally planned as a gift, and it would cost more money than the $150 for the grow box, and most likely wouldn't come out nearly as good, and I will have my main set of plants in the 4x4 area,and anything outside of that area I will just use either the LED light I have which should be good for a 2x2 section really well, and CFLs or hang a emergency space blanket thing, or whatever for something else.. we'll see..
and yeah, sorry for getting into so much detail and rambling on about about of "over the top" stuff, but after reading about so many different setups and all this stuff it just gets a little crazy haha and I end up getting caught up in it, thinking that these pepper plants are really finicky and will die if I don't do this or that..
and yes Flakes, that sounds kind of what I did as far as bleaching, when I was reading how much light you should have, and how much light there is on a sunny day, I figured.. "oh, there is no way I can get close to that amount, so I can just overload on light and they should do great),when I first got my LED light, I had my shelf set up way higher so they were about 6" from the CFL lights, which was great, and the seedlings were doing great.. then I stuck that LED in there, and the way it hangs it was only about 3" from the tops of them and bleached half the seedlings, but at least the other half are recovering nicely, even though it is a little slow. and in a month I will have a ton of seedlings, so can't wait
but thanks for helping me through the process of figuring everything out, it feels great to know what I am going to do now without having to worry about any major things, it just takes a while for me to completely wrap my head around things when I first start out, but I'm a quick learner once I get started lol
and yeah, sorry for getting into so much detail and rambling on about about of "over the top" stuff, but after reading about so many different setups and all this stuff it just gets a little crazy haha and I end up getting caught up in it, thinking that these pepper plants are really finicky and will die if I don't do this or that..
and yes Flakes, that sounds kind of what I did as far as bleaching, when I was reading how much light you should have, and how much light there is on a sunny day, I figured.. "oh, there is no way I can get close to that amount, so I can just overload on light and they should do great),when I first got my LED light, I had my shelf set up way higher so they were about 6" from the CFL lights, which was great, and the seedlings were doing great.. then I stuck that LED in there, and the way it hangs it was only about 3" from the tops of them and bleached half the seedlings, but at least the other half are recovering nicely, even though it is a little slow. and in a month I will have a ton of seedlings, so can't wait
but thanks for helping me through the process of figuring everything out, it feels great to know what I am going to do now without having to worry about any major things, it just takes a while for me to completely wrap my head around things when I first start out, but I'm a quick learner once I get started lol
I am not 100% on this, BUT from what I [think] I have read you can put the LED literally on top of your plants. They should produce almost no heat and there is relatively no threat of burning the plants.
Keep us posted (In this thread if you want) about your grow and status.
Matt
yea I was talking to my biology professor like I said about this light, and he had it about an inch or 2 away from the plants, and they grow like crazy, I had them about that distance away, and they were just too small (most didn't even have their 1st true leaves yet) and I fried them, but once they get bigger they should be fine for the light to be real close, the only problem is that the LED box is only like 9"x9" and the LED space is about 7"x7" or so, so it would be crazy good for 1 plant if it was that close, but to cover a greater area it won't work, but yes it is nice that it doesn't burn, from about 2" away it was slightly warm but nothing even close to how warm the CFLs were from that same distance.. I just think I had to wait until they were a little more established.. I'll play around with the distances and how my setup is going to be once I get everything, I hope to get everything planted early/mid January
Edit: oh and also I forgot, I bought my mom a mini 8 shelf green house for like $60 for Christmas since the one we had 2 years ago got destroyed because we left it out during the winter and the snow store last Christmas tore it up, so.. my mom doesn't know it yet, but once it gets warm enough out, I will be able to transfer a lot of the plants (my pepper and her tomato) plants out into the green house until it gets warm enough to plant them in the soil
Alrighty folks, We got a bit off track for a while, but we are back on schedule...
I am taking College Algebra (failed the CLEP so I was forced to suck it up and take it...) so I figured I would use some of the stuff I learned to figure out the inside structure/grow area. I originally planned to do a U shaped table that would give me space on three sides to grow. After starting to plan I realized going forward with that would extremely limit my space to move and work. So I decided to do more of a L shaped table.
While starting to figure out my measurements, I had an epiphany, why do math when I can use a visual representation??? I know, I almost did math
So I got the kitchen twine, some tape, and a measuring tape. Below are two options, and two layouts for each option.
I am only planning on having 3 50 cell flats, so no matter which I choose I should have room. I am leaning more towards Option 1, because once I start planting more varieties I will probably add another flat of 50 and the extra counter space would be useful. The structure itself is going to be 29" tall, which comes right below my junk. I just measured a folding table I had in the garage and went with that height.
What do yall think?
I am taking College Algebra (failed the CLEP so I was forced to suck it up and take it...) so I figured I would use some of the stuff I learned to figure out the inside structure/grow area. I originally planned to do a U shaped table that would give me space on three sides to grow. After starting to plan I realized going forward with that would extremely limit my space to move and work. So I decided to do more of a L shaped table.
While starting to figure out my measurements, I had an epiphany, why do math when I can use a visual representation??? I know, I almost did math
So I got the kitchen twine, some tape, and a measuring tape. Below are two options, and two layouts for each option.
I am only planning on having 3 50 cell flats, so no matter which I choose I should have room. I am leaning more towards Option 1, because once I start planting more varieties I will probably add another flat of 50 and the extra counter space would be useful. The structure itself is going to be 29" tall, which comes right below my junk. I just measured a folding table I had in the garage and went with that height.
What do yall think?
I am guessing that the square area is basically where you would walk in.. so really as long as you can reach to the other side of the table, depending on how long your arms are, and you could even get a little stool thing that you can use to reach over more when the plants get bigger.. I would go with as small of a working area as possible to maximize grow space
I just got my tent in today, I still need to finish cleaning out the basement, and cut up a super old and mildewy wicker couch down there and move a workout bench into the garage, but I think I should be able to set it up by the end of tonight.. or at least most of it, should be fun.. I won't actually use it till the plants get too big for my shelves I have, but it will be good to get everything set, I'll post some pics of everything in the next few days
I just got my tent in today, I still need to finish cleaning out the basement, and cut up a super old and mildewy wicker couch down there and move a workout bench into the garage, but I think I should be able to set it up by the end of tonight.. or at least most of it, should be fun.. I won't actually use it till the plants get too big for my shelves I have, but it will be good to get everything set, I'll post some pics of everything in the next few days
Just got paid and already spending spending spending! I decided to get a 6" inline duct fan for 25 bucks and free shipping off eBay. God I love eBay! Going to head to Lowe's today if I can find a truck to haul my wood back. Hoping to get all I need for under 60. We shall see....I need a new saw blade, wood screws, 62' of 2x4s and 2 4x8 pieces of plywood. Wish me luck! 
I was starting to plan out a remodel on the corner of the basement about 7'x7'x7' trying to find a cheap table, or grab some 2x4s and frame out a grow area there.
i'll watch this. I really need some good ideas..
I'm thinking about year round grow so I will keep it short.. maybe ill just grab that tent... nice square one like yours...
did you ever measure that tent Matt? for the exact height with mylar around it?
i'll watch this. I really need some good ideas..
I'm thinking about year round grow so I will keep it short.. maybe ill just grab that tent... nice square one like yours...
did you ever measure that tent Matt? for the exact height with mylar around it?
I'm out in town now but I'll be back in a bit. I'll post it as soon as I get home.the tent I have might be closer to your dimensions kind of Jester, if you wanted a larger area, my tent is 6x6x6' it says, but it's really 2mx2mx2m ... so its like 6' 3" cube, I love it, set it up last night and hung the light.. will use the 400w one I have for the 4x4 area, and when the plants get bigger I will just get a 600w dimmable one and use it at 50% or something like that with the 400w one to cover the entire 6x6 tent.. I want the 600w kit to have a bulb with a 6,500k MH color temp. and my 400w one has a MH with a 4,200k color temp, which is bright white.
mine was from Virtual Sun, they sell it on ebay, but it's the same price and it's sold by Virtual Sun anyways, and both have free shipping so I just went through the company so I don't have to do Paypal and ebay junk
http://www.virtualsu...600-76.asp?rt=2
And Mgold, you have those vents on the sides right? I think I remember you talking about those, but did you end up taping those down to keep the warm air in? I think I might do that since I have a 6" ducting with the inline fan sucking air out over the cool tube/bulb, and I have a little air valve in the bottom vent in the tent so there is no cold drafts coming in when the fan isn't on
mine was from Virtual Sun, they sell it on ebay, but it's the same price and it's sold by Virtual Sun anyways, and both have free shipping so I just went through the company so I don't have to do Paypal and ebay junk
http://www.virtualsu...600-76.asp?rt=2
And Mgold, you have those vents on the sides right? I think I remember you talking about those, but did you end up taping those down to keep the warm air in? I think I might do that since I have a 6" ducting with the inline fan sucking air out over the cool tube/bulb, and I have a little air valve in the bottom vent in the tent so there is no cold drafts coming in when the fan isn't on
I only have 79.5 inches and then a small space before the 2x8 floor braces start.
so yeah Maxsack331 that sounds like its right.
so yeah Maxsack331 that sounds like its right.
yea my basement is about 7' or so, but there are some beams and pipes that make it a little smaller, and a light fixture right above my tent that is at about.. 6.5' I think with the bulb in and I have a thin rug under it to keep some of the cold from seeping out through the floor, even though it's insulated
and I was going to do what you were thinking of with building a little isolated/insulated area in the basement but the materials would have cost more than the tent did, and it would have maybe come out as sealed and well as the tent is.. but probably not.. and it would have been a big headache to get completely setup and sealed, the tent is great and easy and can take it down if I ever need to
and I was going to do what you were thinking of with building a little isolated/insulated area in the basement but the materials would have cost more than the tent did, and it would have maybe come out as sealed and well as the tent is.. but probably not.. and it would have been a big headache to get completely setup and sealed, the tent is great and easy and can take it down if I ever need to