The name itself isn't that important, for me it's more about identifying a stable unique pepper that makes sense after the Bhut/Naga-7 Pot-TS barrier has been broken.
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Superhot Future
- Thread starter Spicegeist
- Start date
I THINK WE SHOULD CALL IT "BRAK"
I think we should call it Zorak!
As hobbyists we will all never agree on a system for naming peppers. Unless you have some authoritative organization that sets up rules and such (and who is going to do that for free?) there will always be people who will get into the hobby with different goals than the next person. If I cross two peppers and call it the Shawn's Superhot Mega Scorpion Jolokia, these forums can rant and rave all they want against it, but I'll just do it anyway (no I won't) and even if I get a bad rep here (I hope I don't) half the people that buy seeds on Ebay come here afterward to check.I'm not saying this is neccesarily ethical, but since it isn't illegal, it won't stop. This forum is a great resource, if used before Ebay.
Lets look at dog breeding. You might now pay $1000 dollars for a "cockapoo" which 20 years ago they called a "mutt". Some people get into the hobby of dog breeding just to develop their own breed. We have that freedom (and in those cases we get puppy mills and such). Does anyone really think there will be any set standard for a hobby vegetable?
Honestly, I like the established varieties, naga types, 7 Pots, habs, but after I've grown and tried them I like to see what others have developed intentionally with their crosses, and the surprise with my open pollinated monsters. I don't care what people call it. I barely care what it's derived from. That's too much drama for me.
I understand why some people want a system, to make it easy to identify what you have and what you want. I get it. I'm not knocking it. But since anyone can buy or trade for seeds and do whatever they want with them, there will never be any set system other than proven scientific stabilization. Even then people will argue about it. Maybe someday everything will be so crossed together that there will only be one variety of Mega Pepper. Won't that be fun?
For the record all of that applies to those of us who are hobbyists. Businesses have their own set of ethics which can be enforced through the legal system. I'm not even going to touch that.
Lets look at dog breeding. You might now pay $1000 dollars for a "cockapoo" which 20 years ago they called a "mutt". Some people get into the hobby of dog breeding just to develop their own breed. We have that freedom (and in those cases we get puppy mills and such). Does anyone really think there will be any set standard for a hobby vegetable?
Honestly, I like the established varieties, naga types, 7 Pots, habs, but after I've grown and tried them I like to see what others have developed intentionally with their crosses, and the surprise with my open pollinated monsters. I don't care what people call it. I barely care what it's derived from. That's too much drama for me.
I understand why some people want a system, to make it easy to identify what you have and what you want. I get it. I'm not knocking it. But since anyone can buy or trade for seeds and do whatever they want with them, there will never be any set system other than proven scientific stabilization. Even then people will argue about it. Maybe someday everything will be so crossed together that there will only be one variety of Mega Pepper. Won't that be fun?
For the record all of that applies to those of us who are hobbyists. Businesses have their own set of ethics which can be enforced through the legal system. I'm not even going to touch that.
The people/groups that keep detailed,accurate databases of chile types deserve our thanks. This information is a counter to the Ebay & "hot dog vendor" sellers of the world.
Pepperhead, I really respect your realism and the fact that you carry it at all times from what I have seen.Pepperhead said:
I think this discussion is mostly wishful thinking too. There isn't anyway to enforce any of it, but if we create a culture of responsible breeding/naming we may one day find ourselves in a hobby that has a pseudo-standard naming convention. There will always be the outliers and the marketing geniuses that push against the norm, but if the community begins to agree on some kind of framework, it might catch on (at least for the hobbyist), no harm in trying.
You are definitely right about us not being able to stop anyone from naming an unstable of pepper, or even renaming an already existing pepper (that isn't trademarked).
It's still all about the heat.
How much would you pay for a reliable home test kit for measuring SHU's?
How much would you pay for a reliable home test kit for measuring SHU's?
MisterBigglesworth said:How much would you pay for a reliable home test kit for measuring SHU's?
That is actually something I looked into last year.
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/35584-anyone-with-some-lab-experience-care-to-weigh-in/
Its not a simple or cheap test, but it is a step in the right direction. I would happily pay $25-50 per test to be able to test SHU at home.
Turns out you can get lab tests done much cheaper, in the $50 per test range.
Pepperhead said:
theghostpepperstore said:
I've found with the people around here, enforcement is not really an issue. If something makes sense, it makes sense and if you're reasonable, you will agree. A rogue pepperhead is more of an anomaly than a norm (and we can all see who they are). Some people prefer 7 Pod to 7 Pot or Moruga to Morouga, but this is purely an aesthetic choice and doesn't interfere with identifying the pepper.
IMHO it's worth thinking about, especially if you're like me and have all kinds of odd crosses and are trying to attain intelligibility and simplicity for other growers as things develop. The "solution" may be less than ideal, but I still think something better than "my very own badass pepper" would be desirable.
Pepper mill lol. 
I think the biggest problem is that most of the stuff that is being crossed now, in all honestly, are pretty much the same damn peppers that have just been given a special name for some reason or another. I'm growing 7pod, 7pod brain, 7pod primo, Reapers, Ghost peppers, TS Moruga. etc. To be honest, besides one maybe being slightly hotter than the other or having a slight change in looks, they are all so close in taste/heat I honestly don't see a reason to grow more than 1 type. Doesn't make sense to grow all of them when they are going to have the same heat/flavor profile pretty much. I've watched a bunch of reviews and almost all of the super hot reviews start off with, its hot, it takes awhile to build, its got a floral taste. Haha. Heat on each one reviewed seems to be more on the size of the pod, the time of the season, etc etc. Especially when your comparing a 7pod primo to a Brain, or a Reaper. Meh, its kind of getting boring really.
If a group of us decided on a standard, not an authority, but a guideline to follow, then there are those who would follow it and could say "I've been growing my Peppers to the "THP standard"(or whatever). Then people could look at that, read the standard and decide for themselves if it was within their goal to follow it before they had decided to get into the hobby. Then there are those of us who, when deciding on a vendor or trade partner could ask if they grow by this standard or another and see if it meets their goal. It isn't fool proof by any means, but it would at least set guidelines that someone might follow. I'm not opposed at all to having a set standard and trying to meet it, but you'll still have those who just like doing their own thing their own way. And that is also just fine.
My OPINION is.
99% of most of the recent crosses are from a lot of plants that LOOK like whatever,THEN they are crossed with something that LOOKS like something else.
It gets grown out via a couple plants in isolation for a couple years and IF it grows a similar plant a couple times,it's called stable or jusy sold if people will buy it...
I've grown stuff indoors and KNOW the pods were self pollinated for at least 4 seasons and the 5th season I got a totally different pod.
I personally think that the 8th generation growout of anything is probably just a starting point to see if something is stable.
These days I see a LOT of posts that claim that if something grows for 4 generations it can be considered stable.
I don't see it in my grow outs.
I don't think you need to grow a gazillion plants of each generation unless you want to pick out the plants that resemble what you want to get as an end product.
Ya an acre of the same thing might be faster through selecting what looks right but you still have no idea when the other genes or whatever will kick in and you end up with the same results as I got from growing 1 plant indoors and selecting the pod that looked the most like I wanted.
I read a couple Pot growing sites because a LOT of these guys have a lot of experience with cloning and breeding different stuff for hybrids.
POT isn't the same as other plants but the mechanics involved are the same for the most part as far as genetics goes.
Peppers aren't light specific like other plants are.
High red for peppers doesn't cause budding.
Seems to me LUMENS does.
I know guys who only use 440 and 470nm LEDS that work great for them.
All LEDS don't put out ONLY what they are rated at,just 50%+ of that wavelenght.
I think the blues these guys use put out enough NM of other wave lenghths to do what they are doing.Depends on the specific LED.
I've found in Peppers red makes short Tight branching starts.More blue made bigger plants but not as stocky.
I like a mix of more high red with blue to get my starts to be 8 inches tall but every leaf has a branch starting out at potting up.
Lots of Lumens from my Fluoros did close to the same thing in 5000-6500k with a few 3500k mixed in but my home made LEDS work best so far.
I personally think the Hybrid super hot craze will go nowhere in the long run as far as seed propagation goes.
Clones of a 1 trick poney will rule.
Seeds take too long to be stable by the average gardener.
If your cross is what you want,why mess with the MASSIVE work involved with stabilizing it?
Sell clones that WILL grow the same plant.
A clone can be sent,rooted in a piece of rockwool or whatever in a pill bottle in a bubble envelope for cheap.
You can safely send a rooted clone this way to anywhere you don't have to deal with customs-whatever state or country you live in.
With the advances and interest in cloning these days I see messing with seeds as a thing only a purist would do.
$ will always rule and as Chili heads seem to,for the majority,want the latest hottest,clones will rule eventually until it gets back to the good old days when everyone was into Heirlooms,landrace or wilds.
Not bastards that are created for whatever reason.
I do see a breath of fresh air though,Wilds are getting to be popular again.
Next will be Landrace stuff,I hope.
To me I think a true Chili Head would be like me. LOL
I first started growing Non Bell peppers years ago.
I found there were too many to decide what to grow so I decided to (eventually) grow them all.
Landrace from wherever,Heirlooms from wherever along with ANYTHING from all of the above.
To me the superhot craze and cross stuff is cool for what it is BUT a ton of seed Vendors that used to sell a LOT of varieties have stopped selling stuff that is getting lost in the shuffle these days.
A loss in my opinion.
I have bought about every seed most/all U.S, vendors offer throughout the years.
I'm forced to keep my collection fresh now because I can't buy a LOT of seeds anymore from a vendor.
I used to buy stuff to keep my collection fresh BUT grew out stuff from trades that vendors didn't sell.
Now a LOT of stuff I HAVE to grow out.The seeds aren't for sale anymore.
Sad,Very Sad...
Just my opinion,worth exactly what you paid for it-$0.00.
99% of most of the recent crosses are from a lot of plants that LOOK like whatever,THEN they are crossed with something that LOOKS like something else.
It gets grown out via a couple plants in isolation for a couple years and IF it grows a similar plant a couple times,it's called stable or jusy sold if people will buy it...
I've grown stuff indoors and KNOW the pods were self pollinated for at least 4 seasons and the 5th season I got a totally different pod.
I personally think that the 8th generation growout of anything is probably just a starting point to see if something is stable.
These days I see a LOT of posts that claim that if something grows for 4 generations it can be considered stable.
I don't see it in my grow outs.
I don't think you need to grow a gazillion plants of each generation unless you want to pick out the plants that resemble what you want to get as an end product.
Ya an acre of the same thing might be faster through selecting what looks right but you still have no idea when the other genes or whatever will kick in and you end up with the same results as I got from growing 1 plant indoors and selecting the pod that looked the most like I wanted.
I read a couple Pot growing sites because a LOT of these guys have a lot of experience with cloning and breeding different stuff for hybrids.
POT isn't the same as other plants but the mechanics involved are the same for the most part as far as genetics goes.
Peppers aren't light specific like other plants are.
High red for peppers doesn't cause budding.
Seems to me LUMENS does.
I know guys who only use 440 and 470nm LEDS that work great for them.
All LEDS don't put out ONLY what they are rated at,just 50%+ of that wavelenght.
I think the blues these guys use put out enough NM of other wave lenghths to do what they are doing.Depends on the specific LED.
I've found in Peppers red makes short Tight branching starts.More blue made bigger plants but not as stocky.
I like a mix of more high red with blue to get my starts to be 8 inches tall but every leaf has a branch starting out at potting up.
Lots of Lumens from my Fluoros did close to the same thing in 5000-6500k with a few 3500k mixed in but my home made LEDS work best so far.
I personally think the Hybrid super hot craze will go nowhere in the long run as far as seed propagation goes.
Clones of a 1 trick poney will rule.
Seeds take too long to be stable by the average gardener.
If your cross is what you want,why mess with the MASSIVE work involved with stabilizing it?
Sell clones that WILL grow the same plant.
A clone can be sent,rooted in a piece of rockwool or whatever in a pill bottle in a bubble envelope for cheap.
You can safely send a rooted clone this way to anywhere you don't have to deal with customs-whatever state or country you live in.
With the advances and interest in cloning these days I see messing with seeds as a thing only a purist would do.
$ will always rule and as Chili heads seem to,for the majority,want the latest hottest,clones will rule eventually until it gets back to the good old days when everyone was into Heirlooms,landrace or wilds.
Not bastards that are created for whatever reason.
I do see a breath of fresh air though,Wilds are getting to be popular again.
Next will be Landrace stuff,I hope.
To me I think a true Chili Head would be like me. LOL
I first started growing Non Bell peppers years ago.
I found there were too many to decide what to grow so I decided to (eventually) grow them all.
Landrace from wherever,Heirlooms from wherever along with ANYTHING from all of the above.
To me the superhot craze and cross stuff is cool for what it is BUT a ton of seed Vendors that used to sell a LOT of varieties have stopped selling stuff that is getting lost in the shuffle these days.
A loss in my opinion.
I have bought about every seed most/all U.S, vendors offer throughout the years.
I'm forced to keep my collection fresh now because I can't buy a LOT of seeds anymore from a vendor.
I used to buy stuff to keep my collection fresh BUT grew out stuff from trades that vendors didn't sell.
Now a LOT of stuff I HAVE to grow out.The seeds aren't for sale anymore.
Sad,Very Sad...
Just my opinion,worth exactly what you paid for it-$0.00.
I hear you on the landrace varieties. I keep thinking I'll just grow Bhuts, but can't really bring myself to it...
I think it will play out unevenly, some will establish themselves. A lot of people seem to grow Primos and Yellow Bhuts...
smokemaster said:
I think it will play out unevenly, some will establish themselves. A lot of people seem to grow Primos and Yellow Bhuts...
