Here is something I don't understand. Why do we not have Scoville numbers yet for some of the Caribbean nuclears like Trinidad Scorpion and 7 Pod? I mean that these have not been discovered out of some jungle or rainforest in the the last couple of weeks. We've been growing these for at least a couple of years now. Seems like plenty of time to get a Scoville test done. What exactly is holding it back? Could it be cost prohibitive or is there some political or corporate red tape involved?
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scovilles Scoville Testing?
- Thread starter Diabolus
- Start date
In my opinion its near impossible to put an accurate SHU number beside every pepper
SHU tests will only show the heat level of the particular piece of pod used for testing, so its not that accurate at showing a general heat level of any pepper and from what I hear its the calibrating of the HPLC equipment and pure cap conversions that are often inconsistent. People also have been known to cheat and add extracts to test, and you can also stress plants into being hotter than normal but do we want these inflated results or normal growing condition results?
I also forgot to mention that growing conditions can play a big factor but even different pods on the same plant are going to show much different heat levels
SHU tests will only show the heat level of the particular piece of pod used for testing, so its not that accurate at showing a general heat level of any pepper and from what I hear its the calibrating of the HPLC equipment and pure cap conversions that are often inconsistent. People also have been known to cheat and add extracts to test, and you can also stress plants into being hotter than normal but do we want these inflated results or normal growing condition results?
I also forgot to mention that growing conditions can play a big factor but even different pods on the same plant are going to show much different heat levels
I think that many growers in the islands are not even aware of scoville tests. By the time the seed gets here and a purveyor wants to shill his "world's hottest chile", spending money to get this tested is not in his interest unless he cheats.
Chile heads want scoville tests, the general public doesn't give a poop.
Chile heads want scoville tests, the general public doesn't give a poop.
I spoke the reps for the Chile Pepper Institute in New Mexico, and they said the testing on ongoing for the Trinidad Scorpion. I do not know when the results will be done though. I am hoping sooner than later. Not sure about the 7-pot/pod thought. I have had both, and the jolokia, but nothing his me harder than that Scorpion.
It apparently took them 4-5 years to grow the bhut out for testing, and I believe they said it took this long to produce enough seeds for proper trials since the bhut didn't produce many seeds. It all sounds sort of suspicious to me.
"Ongoing", what exactly does that mean. Its been ongoing for several years now. I think they may just be holding an ace up their sleeve waiting for the right time to draw more attention to themselves and take credit for another "new" hottest pepper.
"Ongoing", what exactly does that mean. Its been ongoing for several years now. I think they may just be holding an ace up their sleeve waiting for the right time to draw more attention to themselves and take credit for another "new" hottest pepper.
POTAWIE said:
CaJohn told me a few months ago they were going to begin testing, and in March they said they were starting, so not sure about the several years thing. I have no clue how long it takes, I am just happy they finally are. I hope it is the hottest pepper in the world, but CaJohn insists it is impossible because of the pepper variety it derives from. All that &%$ is over my head, and I don't really care. I just want to hear the guesstimation.
I'd say the heat one feels out of a pepper is not only a matter of growing conditions, but of the way it attacks you on a personal level. I've had bhuts, nagas, t-scorps, fataliis, and even a bunch of dried douglahs that someone on here was nice enough to send me (hi, Nova!!!) 
Nobody has to smack me in the face to say that the hottest one of the bunch (at least my bunch...to ME) is the 7-pod.....by a long shot!
But, like I said, the human factor has too many variables.
Nobody has to smack me in the face to say that the hottest one of the bunch (at least my bunch...to ME) is the 7-pod.....by a long shot!
But, like I said, the human factor has too many variables.
I think Neil at hippy seed co. should tell us his opinion ,what he considers the hottest to taste. That is where I look at a pepper ,how hot is it to taste!
I don't think Neil would be the person to ask anymore. His tolerance is unbelievable. Watching him eat the 7 Pod "Brain Strain" and stay on track with poor Andrew damn near having his head explode shows that. Although I have never seen Neil sweat that much before. Man I don't know how he does what he does.
I could care less. I like beer too but I don't care what beer has the most alcohol. Nuff said.
For those who care, no offense.
For those who care, no offense.
Having just finished reading The Complete Chile Pepper Book (which I recommend as a read), the explanation they gave for the testing of the Bhut Jolokia in 2005 was that they grew sufficient plants (something in the regions of a hundred), planted in a 'sophisticated, randomized pattern, forming blocks of 36 plants each (they were testing the Bhut against the Red Savina and Orange Hab).
'Scientists' (Chilli-ologists for humour's sake) then harvested 25 random mature fruits from at least ten plants in order to do the HPLC test. (again, taken from the book)
I think they used the whole pods to do the HPLC test as well, so as not to simply test slivers of the fruits without the seeds.
It would seem the growers here in the UK that have had pods tested have had them tested at Warwick University, so i'd imagine their HPLC has been calibrated accurately.
Having further looked at Warwick uni's website, they do seem to have a horticultural research centre:
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/whri/research
'Scientists' (Chilli-ologists for humour's sake) then harvested 25 random mature fruits from at least ten plants in order to do the HPLC test. (again, taken from the book)
I think they used the whole pods to do the HPLC test as well, so as not to simply test slivers of the fruits without the seeds.
It would seem the growers here in the UK that have had pods tested have had them tested at Warwick University, so i'd imagine their HPLC has been calibrated accurately.
Having further looked at Warwick uni's website, they do seem to have a horticultural research centre:
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/whri/research
I guess it only took 4 years from what I read
"Because of poor fruit and seed set, it took Dr. Bosland several years to have sufficient seed on hand for an extensive field trial. 'Bhut Jolokia' was grown under insect-proof net cages to produce the bulk seed, and by 2004, enough seed was available for the test."
http://www.fiery-foods.com/chile-pe...about-growing-chile-peppers/2363-saga-jolokia
Also see this section where they were skeptical of the Assam's naga shu test results. There was once a full article on cheating a hplc test but they seem to have condensed it a lot
"Response by the Chile Pepper Institute and by Dave DeWitt
As Dave noted back then, the report was interesting for the lack of detail of the methodology used to calculate Scoville Units through HPLC (High Performance Liquid Chromatography). He asked Dr. Paul Bosland, the noted chile breeder at New Mexico State University to read the report in "Current Science" and to give us an opinion. Dr. Bosland pointed out that while the HPLC should be calibrated first by using a known concentration of capsaicin solution, there was no mention of such a procedure. This alone could account for measuring 100,000 SHU too much. He also questioned the preparation of the chiles -- did they weigh the chile sample before extracting? Were the seeds, pericarp, and placenta ground together, or did they just pick the hot parts?. In light of Dr. Bosland’s skepticism, Dave repeated his challenge to the Indian scientists, Ritesh Mathur, R.S. Dangi. S.C. Dass, and R.C. Malhotra of the Defence Research Laboratory in Gwalior, India, to send him samples of the ‘Tezpur’ pods for testing by two U.S. labs -- the one at New Mexico State University, and one at Analytical Food Laboratories."
"Because of poor fruit and seed set, it took Dr. Bosland several years to have sufficient seed on hand for an extensive field trial. 'Bhut Jolokia' was grown under insect-proof net cages to produce the bulk seed, and by 2004, enough seed was available for the test."
http://www.fiery-foods.com/chile-pe...about-growing-chile-peppers/2363-saga-jolokia
Also see this section where they were skeptical of the Assam's naga shu test results. There was once a full article on cheating a hplc test but they seem to have condensed it a lot
"Response by the Chile Pepper Institute and by Dave DeWitt
As Dave noted back then, the report was interesting for the lack of detail of the methodology used to calculate Scoville Units through HPLC (High Performance Liquid Chromatography). He asked Dr. Paul Bosland, the noted chile breeder at New Mexico State University to read the report in "Current Science" and to give us an opinion. Dr. Bosland pointed out that while the HPLC should be calibrated first by using a known concentration of capsaicin solution, there was no mention of such a procedure. This alone could account for measuring 100,000 SHU too much. He also questioned the preparation of the chiles -- did they weigh the chile sample before extracting? Were the seeds, pericarp, and placenta ground together, or did they just pick the hot parts?. In light of Dr. Bosland’s skepticism, Dave repeated his challenge to the Indian scientists, Ritesh Mathur, R.S. Dangi. S.C. Dass, and R.C. Malhotra of the Defence Research Laboratory in Gwalior, India, to send him samples of the ‘Tezpur’ pods for testing by two U.S. labs -- the one at New Mexico State University, and one at Analytical Food Laboratories."