Double post
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If you need help identifying a pepper, disease, or plant issue, please post in Identification.
media Peat vs coco fiber. What one study shows
- Thread starter Proud Marine Dad
- Start date
That would depend on the source. There are self described experts on many forums and then there are others who are leaders in their field of study.
Have to hang out long enough to see which they are.
Have to hang out long enough to see which they are.
Coco. coco coco coco.
It has a high salinity (namely the bricks) because it comes from coastal regions, and naturally accumulates salt, hence the "hazardous" run off. It is dangerous if they let it run off willy nilly. Hence the recommendation to wash bricked coco, ideally until the run off EC is comparable to the flush water. Or skip the boat and buy the prebuffered bagged, though I've heard of hot batches.
As an unamended medium, I love it. Forget perlite, dolo, hydroton. Just that fluffy brown. Once the plant is rootbound, the rootball is like a tiny reservoir. If something is wrong, flush with a pH/EC corrected solution and the plant will recover faster than soil, and avoid the nasty death/damage it would see in hydro. Root rot is only an issue in extreme cases, typically from overwatering before full roots are established. The drainage is superior, without becoming saturated to a toxic point. Its a lovely thing to water a pot at high volume without resistance. Bottom water, top water, drip, makes a great wick and has a lower perched water table than most mediums.
It is important to use a hydro/coco specific nutrient, as they take account of cocos high capability to hold potassium, so well that it competes with Ca/Mg uptake. EC and pH are king, and many deficiences can be fixed by moving within a pH range. Salt build up can be an issue, if not dealt with in the feeding regime/schedule.
Admittedly, when dealing with plants in different stages of growth, with varying water demands (once they are rootbound, the girls, they love the water), it can become consuming to keep everything flowing smoothly. Allowing a pot to dry out is a deadly sin. It skyrockets the salinity of the substrate very quickly.
There are organic lines, how organic they are is debatable. I ran Earth Juice for a bit and the plants were healthy by any standard. Accounting for the hilarious pH swing put a murderous look to my smile for a few weeks. They have "organic" pH adjusters, but it was a running joke to watch it swing back after a few hours.
Is it for everyone? No. Is it for houseplants/small scale? Not really, unless you want to fiddle fart around mixing with an eye dropper. A glace at that study, and having read a number of its ilk, it isn't even for many professional growers, or maybe isn't the right product to their situation. Its high maintanence, finicky to learn, but in its place, I prefer it to the hydrophobic nature of peat any day. For growth and yield its tops. Even now as I'm loving the organic, water only approach, I buff my peat based potting mix with a bit of coco, for a bit of aeration and drainage.
Wow. Sounded a bit like a coco rep. Hell, we haven't even touched on using coco water yet. Or the milk. Curry. Food? I need to go.
It has a high salinity (namely the bricks) because it comes from coastal regions, and naturally accumulates salt, hence the "hazardous" run off. It is dangerous if they let it run off willy nilly. Hence the recommendation to wash bricked coco, ideally until the run off EC is comparable to the flush water. Or skip the boat and buy the prebuffered bagged, though I've heard of hot batches.
As an unamended medium, I love it. Forget perlite, dolo, hydroton. Just that fluffy brown. Once the plant is rootbound, the rootball is like a tiny reservoir. If something is wrong, flush with a pH/EC corrected solution and the plant will recover faster than soil, and avoid the nasty death/damage it would see in hydro. Root rot is only an issue in extreme cases, typically from overwatering before full roots are established. The drainage is superior, without becoming saturated to a toxic point. Its a lovely thing to water a pot at high volume without resistance. Bottom water, top water, drip, makes a great wick and has a lower perched water table than most mediums.
It is important to use a hydro/coco specific nutrient, as they take account of cocos high capability to hold potassium, so well that it competes with Ca/Mg uptake. EC and pH are king, and many deficiences can be fixed by moving within a pH range. Salt build up can be an issue, if not dealt with in the feeding regime/schedule.
Admittedly, when dealing with plants in different stages of growth, with varying water demands (once they are rootbound, the girls, they love the water), it can become consuming to keep everything flowing smoothly. Allowing a pot to dry out is a deadly sin. It skyrockets the salinity of the substrate very quickly.
There are organic lines, how organic they are is debatable. I ran Earth Juice for a bit and the plants were healthy by any standard. Accounting for the hilarious pH swing put a murderous look to my smile for a few weeks. They have "organic" pH adjusters, but it was a running joke to watch it swing back after a few hours.
Is it for everyone? No. Is it for houseplants/small scale? Not really, unless you want to fiddle fart around mixing with an eye dropper. A glace at that study, and having read a number of its ilk, it isn't even for many professional growers, or maybe isn't the right product to their situation. Its high maintanence, finicky to learn, but in its place, I prefer it to the hydrophobic nature of peat any day. For growth and yield its tops. Even now as I'm loving the organic, water only approach, I buff my peat based potting mix with a bit of coco, for a bit of aeration and drainage.
Wow. Sounded a bit like a coco rep. Hell, we haven't even touched on using coco water yet. Or the milk. Curry. Food? I need to go.
Another reason I prefer organic. Much easier and just better all around.
Very well said Miguelovic. Coco isn't for everyone. But for those that enjoy a bit more of a technical nature to dialing a plant in, it's great. Coco gives you great control over virtually every aspect and stage of a plants life. It doesn't hurt that you get bigger plants and better yields in smaller pots either 
Neil
Neil
You guys are growing in hydroponics which has no bearing on the OP which was soil related.Blister said:Very well said Miguelovic. Coco isn't for everyone. But for those that enjoy a bit more of a technical nature to dialing a plant in, it's great. Coco gives you great control over virtually every aspect and stage of a plants life. It doesn't hurt that you get bigger plants and better yields in smaller pots either
Neil
No as there are people who use coir in soil mixes as well and that is what the discussion is about.Blister said:
Its a little hard to use sphagnum peat moss in hydro isnt it?
The study (on soilless growing) in the original post fails, because they treat each identically. Potassium toxicity and salt build up is going to kill or stunt plants every time. If the study were repeated, taking into account the difference between the two, peat would be left in the dust as a soilless medium.
A bit confused on how a discussion that started out comparing soilless mediums became about coir as a soil amendment.
And coir is hydroponic-like
A bit confused on how a discussion that started out comparing soilless mediums became about coir as a soil amendment.
And coir is hydroponic-like
The study (on soilless growing) in the original post fails, because they treat each identically. Potassium toxicity and salt build up is going to kill or stunt plants every time. If the study were repeated, taking into account the difference between the two, peat would be left in the dust as a soilless medium.
A bit confused on how a discussion that started out comparing soilless mediums became about coir as a soil amendment.
And coir is hydroponic-like
Well said!
Also what do you personally do to account for the potassium and salinity?
A bit confused on how a discussion that started out comparing soilless mediums became about coir as a soil amendment.
And coir is hydroponic-like
Well said!
Also what do you personally do to account for the potassium and salinity?
swellcat said:
Are you saying sphagnum peat moss is not a good, renewable resource?
You hydro guys have to work too hard.miguelovic said:
Because some people use it that way.miguelovic said:
And some people use it another way.
It is too much work, fiddle farting around (new favorite term) with bottles of Kool-Aid. Hence why I don't even have coco going right now, only organic soil mixes
Totally different story if I am growing for profit. A bit of extra work isn't such a pain when the results are on the scale.
You hydro guys have to work too hard.
It is too much work, fiddle farting around (new favorite term) with bottles of Kool-Aid. Hence why I don't even have coco going right now, only organic soil mixes
Totally different story if I am growing for profit. A bit of extra work isn't such a pain when the results are on the scale.
miguelovic said:And some people use it another way.
It is too much work, fiddle farting around (new favorite term) with bottles of Kool-Aid. Hence why I don't even have coco going right now, only organic soil mixes
Totally different story if I am growing for profit. A bit of extra work isn't such a pain when the results are on the scale.
What are you using for your soil mix right now? I need to get some mixed up soon and am looking for ideas.
Basic three part, slightly modified
-peat/coco 80/20
-humus ie. castings, compost
-perlite/vermiculite/something to aerate
-fungus gnat larvae
1/2 tbsp/gal kelp and alfalfa, about 2 tbsp/gal lime to buffer. Ideally kept moist for a month with tea.
I start with that, then up pot into an amended mix, the same three part with a variety of meals and dusts. Just sent my first sacrifice into the full mix, chose a pH/food sensitive sissy plant and she seems to be doing well.
Pretty much what PMD does
Looking for a new mix that doesn't saturate with water as well, vermiculite was a terrible idea and peat is driving me up the wall. Mulch helps, reduces that lovely water resistant crust peat loves to make.
-peat/coco 80/20
-humus ie. castings, compost
-perlite/vermiculite/something to aerate
-fungus gnat larvae
1/2 tbsp/gal kelp and alfalfa, about 2 tbsp/gal lime to buffer. Ideally kept moist for a month with tea.
I start with that, then up pot into an amended mix, the same three part with a variety of meals and dusts. Just sent my first sacrifice into the full mix, chose a pH/food sensitive sissy plant and she seems to be doing well.
Pretty much what PMD does
Looking for a new mix that doesn't saturate with water as well, vermiculite was a terrible idea and peat is driving me up the wall. Mulch helps, reduces that lovely water resistant crust peat loves to make.
miguelovic said:Basic three part, slightly modified
-peat/coco 80/20
-humus ie. castings, compost
-perlite/vermiculite/something to aerate
-fungus gnat larvae
1/2 tbsp/gal kelp and alfalfa, about 2 tbsp/gal lime to buffer. Ideally kept moist for a month with tea.
I start with that, then up pot into an amended mix, the same three part with a variety of meals and dusts. Just sent my first sacrifice into the full mix, chose a pH/food sensitive sissy plant and she seems to be doing well.
Pretty much what PMD does
Looking for a new mix that doesn't saturate with water as well, vermiculite was a terrible idea and peat is driving me up the wall. Mulch helps, reduces that lovely water resistant crust peat loves to make.
Should I be worried about the quality of the fungus gnat larvae, or will any ol' fungus gnat larvae do?
miguelovic said:Basic three part, slightly modified
-peat/coco 80/20
-humus ie. castings, compost
-perlite/vermiculite/something to aerate
-fungus gnat larvae
1/2 tbsp/gal kelp and alfalfa, about 2 tbsp/gal lime to buffer. Ideally kept moist for a month with tea.
I start with that, then up pot into an amended mix, the same three part with a variety of meals and dusts. Just sent my first sacrifice into the full mix, chose a pH/food sensitive sissy plant and she seems to be doing well.
Pretty much what PMD does
Looking for a new mix that doesn't saturate with water as well, vermiculite was a terrible idea and peat is driving me up the wall. Mulch helps, reduces that lovely water resistant crust peat loves to make.
Why do you use fungus gnat larvae????
Also someone on reddit mentioned composted pine bark as an alternative to vermiculite/perlite.