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soil Roots: Hydro Vs Soil

aram

aram

I'm planning on starting seeds soon in 4x4 tent on a 3x3 ebb and flow tray. I'm using 3x3 inch square pots. My initial plan was to fill as many pots in there as I can filled with peat moss/coco mixture and water by hand. If I use hydroton instead, can I keep the plants in there longer than I would in be able to in peat? I've heard roots in hydroponic systems don't need as much room as they would in peat or soil. Anyone know if this is true?

I want to get an early start cause summers up here are short and I want to get a head start. The sooner I plant the larger my plants will be before they need to be transplanted (in which case they're gonna have to go outside).

Here's a list of what I'm planning on planting this year:

7 Pod Yellow
7 Pod Jonah
7 Pod Brain Strain (thanks to PRF)
Douglah
Trinidad Scorpions
Bhut Jolokia
Naga Morich
Fatali
Thai Red (thanks to hot stuff)
Orange Scotch Bonnet
Orange Habanero
Chocolate Habanero
Mustard Habanero
Cayenne

Thanks! Any input is appreciated.
 
Tough question to answer. I'm not sure if the medium alone could really buy you more time or not but there are different hydro methods/tecniques that should help
Peat moss/coco are soil-less and can be used for hydroponics. Hydroponics is really just feeding plants with nutrients in the water instead of in the soil although these days it usually involves pumps and automation
 
if your asking which is more suitable for a small root space, id say use all coco. ive seen some very large illegal plants grown in 2gallon square pots using coco, they were using topf blumat drippers which pretty much feed the plants 24/7.
 
It would be very hard to reach the back of the table to hand water. A 40 gallon reservoir would be perfect. What medium will you use outside? I'd suggest using 100% coco inside.
 
The plants don't need quite as much room because the plant doesn't need to send out feeder roots. Personally I'm using pea gravel. Peppers are doing ok so far. Tomatoes are doing really good. But once you got them in hydro you really don't want to put them into the ground. It does work ok the other way.
 
It's not so much that it is hard to reach as it is that I have 81 plants to water everyday lol (they're gonna be under a 600 watt MH and the heat dries the medium pretty quickly). I'm gonna use my tray for the purpose it was intended for and give ebb n' flow a shot. I think I'm gonna go with coco as most of you suggested.

I'm thinking of taking them outside on May 1, when do you guys think is a good time to start planting?
 
aram said:
It's not so much that it is hard to reach as it is that I have 81 plants to water everyday lol (they're gonna be under a 600 watt MH and the heat dries the medium pretty quickly). I'm gonna use my tray for the purpose it was intended for and give ebb n' flow a shot. I think I'm gonna go with coco as most of you suggested.

I'm thinking of taking them outside on May 1, when do you guys think is a good time to start planting?
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6 weeks before transplanting is the usual guide, but if you have some 180 day maturities, I simply would work backwards from your first frost.
 
hot stuff said:
The plants don't need quite as much room because the plant doesn't need to send out feeder roots. Personally I'm using pea gravel. Peppers are doing ok so far. Tomatoes are doing really good. But once you got them in hydro you really don't want to put them into the ground. It does work ok the other way.
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Last year I started them in peat, fed them hydro nutes and then put them in 5 gallon pots filled with peat/coco and fed them chicken manure for the entire growing season and they did great. 10 of my plants (the yellow 7 pod) are going in 5 gallon pots to be isolated on my balcony and the rest will go in a raised bed in a community garden. Why do you say they won't do good in the ground?

queequeg152 said:
im no outdoor grower... but dont you just use the average last frost date to know when to plant outside?
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That was the plan last year, I took them out around the last days of April but we got a freak snow storm and it killed off some of my plants so I don't really want to take a chance this year. I was just wondering how long they could survive in 3x3 pots in hydro before they need to be transplanted without any permanent root damage.
 
The plants will have to adjust to the change from hydro to soil, and going from rocks to topsoil is about as different as it gets. I think coco is your best bet for indoors. If they would stay in coco or a move to a light peat mix then you could start really early, but if they're going into the ground at the community garden you don't want a big difference in the medium properties. It would be best for your plants that are destined for soil, to transplant them pretty young. Maybe I'd start in waves. First get the yellow 7s (container destined) going early and either pot up to something bigger inside or try coco containers so the roots can air prune. After those are potted up you can put your next wave of seedlings under the canopy. I found that my plants would stay much happier in coco pots like I'm showing below. I won't be using them much anymore because I'm have a nice long season and don't need to age them inside much.

IMG_8570.jpg
 
May 1st? I serious doubt that will work in Montreal. I usually wait about a month after my last frost date before I plant any chiles in the ground since it can take until near July most years for my garden soil to warm up adequately and for the unexpected cold weather and snow to dissapear. City people around here always plant May 24 weekend and most often have to re-plant or settle with weathered, unproductive runts. This is also one of the main reasons why most of my chiles are grown in containers. July to September is just not long enough for good chile production, especially in Canada :(
I start my chinenses in Jan-Feb and those that get planted in the ground get done so in late June to early July
I'd probably wait until feb or March to plant the cayennes and thais which grow a lot quicker

Going from hydro to soil has never been a problem for me, just harden the plants off well to their new environment.
 
ZanderSpice, the only problem is with such a short growing season, the second wave of seedlings will hardly reach maturity before they start producing decent pods. I'll definitely do that for my tomatoes and cucumbers though! (Peppers get priority over anything :))

Potawie, I had to improvise last year. I took them out into my gazebo with a heater for a couple of weeks in April/May and then I put a tarp on top of them when I took them outside (in case another freak snowstorm kills them all off). This year I moved to an apartment and the balcony is covered by the next story's balcony so a late snowstorm isn't too big a concern for those that go on the balcony, probably mid/late May? However, you're probably right for the ones going in the raised bed. I have a big sunny kitchen window that could house them for a while in 1 or 2 gallon peat containers before they finally go in the ground. Would that help them get a little more established before they go in the raised beds?

BAH! Too many options haha! Maybe I'll just stick to 10-15 plants and grow them on my balcony.
 
It sounds like it will be very difficult to have much success in the ground with long season varieties. The problem with putting them in 1 or 2 gallon containers first is the differences in the medium. I've pulled up more than a few plants that have stalled in those conditions. The roots may be too happy in the peat mix or coco and don't move out to the surrounding soil. The other issue could be the peat drying out faster than the surrounding soil. If you do put large plants in the ground, dig a huge hole and blend the local soil with your mix so there is a more gradual transition. Maybe even use a soil/peat blend in the containers prior to putting them in the field.

A hybrid approach could be to use a 3 or 5 gallon container and sink it just a bit in the native soil. Roots will grow into the soil to seek out moisture and you'll get a bigger plant and save on potting mix.

Potawie is a better grower than me and he knows your weather well. If he keeps them in containers I think it's your best shot for the long season types. I hope you're able to grow more than 10 or 15 in your situation, I think I remember some of your garden shots from this season that were impressive.
 
I have gone from hydro to dirt and dirt to hydro many times and have not had transplant problems. Plants take right off and don't miss a beat.

Hydro uses rock wool/hydrotron, soil uses soil.
 
In terms of longevity for the growing medium, I'd use Hydroton, It can be rinsed and re-used as opposed to coco or peat moss, which I believe breaks down and will not really be re-useable. The thing with Hydroton is, (as I have found) the roots tend to grow into it as well as around it but I have not as yet found a problem with re-use, simply boil it then re-use, all germs are gone!

I hope this answers what you were asking but I am rather pissed ATM! So I may have mis read you're original post.

Good luck

:cheers:

Jas
 
I'm setting up my tent today to house one of the plants I am overwintering, a Red Savina, under a 430 watt HPS bulb. I ran out of seeds so I'm only going to grow this to harvest some true seeds and in 2-3 months I'll start my seeds for the 2011 season.
 
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