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fertilizer Highly-potent fertilizer... they make this stuff?!

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UltraZelda64

I'm used to seeing fertilizers that have percentages of the major nutrients in the teens, sometimes 20 or even 30. I've also heard all the warnings and horror stories of stunting, abnormal growth, burning, flower drop/fruit abortion, and outright killing plants through the use of too many nutrients, and plenty of cautions recommending to play it safe and use less than the manufacturer's recommended amount. And now... I find out that there are some fertilizers that not only surpass 30% of some major nutrients I see in commonly-found fertilizers like Miracle-Gro, they blow it away, up to 50% in some cases for phosphorus I've noticed. I noticed on FoxFarms' site, all of their "soluble fertilizers" are very strong. Hell, even the fertilizers for trees (and shrubs) that M-G sells don't get that high! And if a fertilizer formulated for trees, of all plants, is nowhere near that high... then I can't imagine anything else needing that much.

So what's the deal? How is this safe for the plants? Is it supposed to be insanely diluted to the point where the end result of each macro-nutrient is closer to the teens, 20s, 30s or whatever? I'm curious to find out why such potent nutes exist, and what the heck good they're for, and how people that use them feel safe from torching their plants or causing all kinds of other crazy stuff to happen... what are some real, serious uses for these supernutes?

Only thing I can think of is fertilizing a nutrient-loving plant growing in the sand of the Sonoran Desert... I have to be missing something...
 
Nah, your not missing anything. Think about it; bigger, better, faster...the mantra of "modern" society.
I for one have completely backed off of all chemical fertilizers. Good dirt, compost, and assorted manures are all a plant, ANY PLANT, requires. A long time ago there was a book, "Don't Push the River"! Most everybody is pushing the river.
I'm just going to enjoy it as it goes by. ;)
 
Don't look at the individual numbers as much as the N/P/K ratio. 1/1/1 is basically the same ratio as 30/30/30, you'd just need more
 
There's rock phosphate that can be bought in my country. It's got naturally occuring phosphorous. 45% i think. Since it's purely organic stuff i dont think it'll hurt the plants, at least not too much. So long as directions are followed. There's also tricalcium phosphate and bat guano that has similar concentrations.

From what i've read and learned here, with ferts or other ammendments, if unsure then less is better. That is what i'm following since i joined thp.

There's a lot of guess work involved working with unknown stuff and thp has helped take out a lot of the guessing. But as always, one can never learn enough.
 
Because its organic in no way means it won't hurt the plant. Here's one argument: With organic nutrients they can't use any chemicals to extract only what's needed by the plant, they often have to leave in some nasties too. With hydro or chemical nutrients you are usually getting more concentration of what the plants' need and less un-wanted materials although chemicals fertilizers will usually harm your soil over time rather than improve it
 
Ok. Because of the nasties left in, it could hurt it because it's unprocessed?

Ok. Makes sense. I'd rather have those nasties than chemical nasties. I think. Hehe.

Thanks potawie.
 
Its not just the nasties that can be harmfull(although arsenic etc. should be avoided when possible), its often the nitrogen that burns plants and especially nitrogen from urea
 
It appears to also have fluorine and chlorine? but no nitrogen
I guess you'll need to add some form of nitrogen, I'd go with good compost or aged manure, or even fish emulsions

Edit: that stuff appears to be very high in calcium and phosphates. I wouldn't recommend using it straight
 
I see. I've been growing with that now. Just looking for a source of calcium and other micro nutes.

Flourine and chlorine stunts plant growth right?
 
UltraZelda64 said:
So what's the deal? How is this safe for the plants? Is it supposed to be insanely diluted to the point where the end result of each macro-nutrient is closer to the teens, 20s, 30s or whatever? I'm curious to find out why such potent nutes exist, and what the heck good they're for, and how people that use them feel safe from torching their plants or causing all kinds of other crazy stuff to happen... what are some real, serious uses for these supernutes?
Click to expand...

If the price is right it's just more bang for your buck. For example, if you buy 30-30-30 and the recommended dosage is 1 tablespoon per gallon, if you add 1 teaspoon per gallon you have effectively made a 10-10-10 solution. Like POTAWIE mentioned, the ratio between the NPK numbers is much more important than the concentration. You also need to look at the chems used to provide each of the 3 macros. When purchasing a more concentrated fertilizer, you're just buying less "filler".
 
franzb69 said:
I see. I've been growing with that now. Just looking for a source of calcium and other micro nutes.

Flourine and chlorine stunts plant growth right?
Click to expand...

Not sure about Fluorine, but Chlorine (in low concentrations) is essential for plants. With regard to rock phosphate, I believe it is just CaPO4 (read: calcium phosphate), it is mined so will contain many other things in various concentrations. I tends to not be very soluble in the soil should be used by broadcast applications. I agree with POTAWIE in that just because something is "organic" (whatever that means) doesn't mean it will be lees harmful or harmless to the plant. It all depends on use rates, process conditions, etc.
 
Not sure about Fluorine, but Chlorine (in low concentrations) is essential for plants. With regard to rock phosphate, I believe it is just CaPO4 (read: calcium phosphate), it is mined so will contain many other things in various concentrations. I tends to not be very soluble in the soil should be used by broadcast applications. I agree with POTAWIE in that just because something is "organic" (whatever that means) doesn't mean it will be lees harmful or harmless to the plant. It all depends on use rates, process conditions, etc.
Click to expand...

thanks!

i read online just last night about this and yeah flourine does stunt plant growth. not very soluble huh? i'm a container gardener for now. that doesn't sound good for me. i'll try and play around with it and see.

yes i do understand that just because it is organic it doesn't mean it's less harmful or beneficial to the plant at all. this is why i mentioned that it's still guess work and that following directions on applications is best, and actually even giving less to the plant just to make sure you don't kill it.
 
Most of the Fox Farms stuff is pretty normal as far as NPK is concerned. The super charged stuff is probably geared for the weed growers. I mean the stuff is called Cha-Ching, Open Sesame and Beastie Bloomz. Unless youre looking for that prized orchid bloom or you're in a competitve chili growing league, could you possibly need a 0-50-30 type fertilizer to start an early bloom and improve taste and aroma? It not like its being marketed to boost your eggplant. Its mostly a gimmick and really expensive (about 30 bucks for a 1 pound bottle).
 
Interesting information. I'll most definitely stick with the "weaker" stuff... which itself is much stronger than the usual organic products, and surely strong enough for anything really. Paranoid about the amount of fertilizer already in my commercial mix, I didn't bother with fertilizer until now, which I used on three of my potted plants (Miracle-Gro Tomato Plant Food, 18-18-21). No problems yet, hopefully I'll see some really good growth soon. I feel comfortable with its measurements of ~1 tablespoon per gallon... allows a bit more mixing flexibility and more room for error in measurement without being paranoid about using too much. If I would've known the fertilizer pre-mixed with the potting soil was to weak (0.21 - 0.07 - 0.14), I would've been using stronger stuff all along. Oh well... there's always other years to experiment.
 
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