`Global Warming`

[talas]

The data below has been checked and verified and was published in the Telegraph in the U.K Some of the details may surprise you as many of us have been told the exact opposite over the last few years...But always check for yourselves.

Comment: A few comments about the 'Global Warming' in this article by the Telegraph

Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) is a theory (hypothesis).
It is an unproven theory. What you do with theories is put them to the test with scientific observations.

Let's see what data points we now have:

1) Average annual temperatures have not surpassed 1998 (NOAA) (University of Alabama)

2) Average annual temperatures are now trending downward since 1998 (NOAA) (University of Alabama)

3) Ocean temperatures have not risen since 2000 when the 3000 Argo buoys were launched. The buoys even show a slight decrease in ocean temperatures

4) The Arctic ice froze to February levels by December 07, there are 1mm more sq km than before (previous was 13mm sq km)

5) The Arctic ice is 20cm thicker than "normal" (whatever that is)

6) All polar bear pods are stable or growing (NOAA/PBS)

7) Mount Kilimanjaro is not melting because of global warming, rather "sublimation"

8) The Antarctic is not "melting", it is growing in most places, the sloughing off at the edges is normal as the ice mass grows

9) The majority of the Antarctic is 8 degrees below "normal" (again, whatever that is)

10) The coveted .7 degree rise in temperatures over the last 100 years has been wiped out with last years below "normal" temperatures (NOAA coolest winter since 2001)

11) Al Gores film was just deemed "propaganda" in a court of law in the UK as many points could not be substantiated by scientists

12) It was also just reveled that some of the footage in Al Gore's film was CGI. The ice shelf collapse was from the movie The Day After Tomorrow (ABC)

13) One of the scientists that originally thought that CO2 preceded the warming has now found with new data that the CO2 rise follows the warming (Dr David Evans)

14) Solar minimums magnify cold spells. August 2008 was the first time since 1913 there were no sun spots.

15) The Medieval Warm Period was warmer than the 20th century (no SUVs)

16) Many scientists are now predicting 30 years of cooling.

17) The greenhouse effect is real, our small contribution to it cannot even be measured

18) Several publications, including those that are 'warmist' have recently written that the 'natural' cycles of the earth may 'mask' AGW.
Give me a break.

19) 31,000 scientist have signed a petition against AGW!

With China (1 new coal fired plant coming on line each week) and India spewing millions of tons of CO2 in to the atmosphere, along with the rest of the world increasing their CO2 'production' over the last ten years, these results should be impossible.

[texas blues]

Talas...thankfully I never bought into the whole GW fear mongering bs. As Al Gore still flies in private aircraft, still has that abomination of houseboat the size of a small aircraft carrier and spends more in 2 weeks on power for his house than I do in a year...I am pretty sure old Al never bought into it either. He and his crone bottom feeding faux hippies have earned about $200 million marketing everything attached to global warming. What does a carbon credit look like? Never seen one.

Cheers, TB.

[chilliman64]

I believe that most statistics and facts can be manipulated, misrepresented, distorted or taken out of context in order to suit arguments on both sides. I think all will agree that humans have had some impact on the earth but it's difficult to measure esp since it's such an emotive subject. there is no doubt that the earth will try to heal itself of man's influence which may support some of these facts.

me, I don't know if I'm too concerned about the earths future - I don't have kids so as long as the earth survives for the next 50 yrs or so I'm ok - j/k.

[DickT]

Great post Talas, I have a lot to add, later The global warming thing is a scam yes yes

[Armadillo]

I'm absolutely not concerned for earth. Even if 99% of all species would vanish our blue planet would have a few billion years of time for a new evolution.
I'm only concerned for mankind. No scientist will definitely be able to exactly tell us what will happen. Is it human impact? Is it a natural circular change that has been there for milleniums and will be? No matter if it will be warmer or colder, if the oceans will rise or fall: we will have to learn to live with it. So at least the discussions started by people like Al Gore are important. The outcome is open.

[ring sting]

Science is not concerned with absolutes.

A true scientist will never sya that anything is absolutely certain. as such, everything is a theory.

It is only a theory that the earth travels around the sun, so to discredit a thought process because it is a theory is pure manipulation.

What is the alternative theory put forward by those that do not agree with AGW? From what I can tell, there is no alternative other than that the earth is following its normal cycle.

AGW may be a false paradigm, but is there really anything wrong with attempting to reign in the impact we as a species have on the planet?

[DickT]

Science is not concerned with absolutes.

.

AGW may be a false paradigm, but is there really anything wrong with attempting to reign in the impact we as a species have on the planet?

RS there is if there is a hidden agenda

[DevilDuck]

I look at it this way. If we (as a species) were making such a bad impact on this planet, good ol' Mother Earth would shake us off like a dog with fleas. No species is meant to last forever (ok, the cockroach is pushing it a little...) and that includes us.

For instance.... New Orleans, areas of San Francisco (the fill areas on the bay), Venice, Italy, a few small (really small) islands off the coasts of Africa and India, (parts of) The Netherlands are really having issues with keeping Mother Nature at bay in recent years. Why? Because people wanted to live in places that weren't meant for them to live and the Earth will only play along for so long before reclaiming what was there in the first place.

In the south USA, Kudzu is king. When I lived in Mississippi, I've watched entire houses get overtaken by this vine in a weeks time with people still living there. The Earth will reclaim what's hers and there's nothing we can do about it. Oh, we can whine & cry, point fingers, have political and scientific discussions, use CFL bulbs, drive electric cars, become vegan, and what have you... but in the long run, it's not going to matter.

[millworkman]

Big +1 to what DevilDuck postted.

[cheezydemon]

I for one am not OK with being singled out for extinction.

Verifying the facts is nearly impossible for any of us.

Freaking out over global warming is almost as bad as stubbornly denying it until we are on an unavoidable course for extinction.

Assuming that "mother nature" or the earth is a living thinking being is pretty amusing.

Man does have the capacity to effectively destroy the earth, so to assume that we couldn't accidentally make it uninhabitable is pretty closed minded and probably dangerous.

[DevilDuck]

Assuming that "mother nature" or the earth is a living thinking being is pretty amusing.

Hmmmm...... Maybe not in the human capacity. However that debate is off limits here.

Man does have the capacity to effectively destroy the earth, so to assume that we couldn't accidentally make it uninhabitable is pretty closed minded and probably dangerous.

We have the means to make it uninhabitable for us. It doesn't mean some other species won't live on. Humans aren't the end-all-be-all of life and you know it. C'mon... Just days after some of the biggest catastrophes in history (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Mt. St. Helens, Chernobyl, etc...) birds were reported singing and flying around. Insects were back to "business as usual". Within a few weeks plants were seen sprouting. The Earth can take care of itself.

[texas blues]

Hmmmm...... Maybe not in the human capacity. However that debate is off limits here.



We have the means to make it uninhabitable for us. It doesn't mean some other species won't live on. Humans aren't the end-all-be-all of life and you know it. C'mon... Just days after some of the biggest catastrophes in history (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Mt. St. Helens, Chernobyl, etc...) birds were reported singing and flying around. Insects were back to "business as usual". Within a few weeks plants were seen sprouting. The Earth can take care of itself.

There is only one thing that if it falls into the wrong hands such as the terrorists or aliens and used improperly that could ultimately destroy the world and it is this.....

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u46/chezrobert/marshall_hendrix_stack.jpg

The number "11" could kill us all!

Cheers, TB.

[talas]

Yes a stack of Marshall's will do the trick :)

[DevilDuck]

Damn... I forgot about the Marshall Stacks.

[cheezydemon]

To each their own, and discussion is healthy. I have just met too many people that make global warming a partisan topic, and will refuse to believe in it until the ocean is lapping at the door of their central texas home.;)

[Txclosetgrower]

To each their own, and discussion is healthy. I have just met too many people that make global warming a partisan topic, and will refuse to believe in it until the ocean is lapping at the door of their central texas home.;)

Hey man, I live in central texas. But I live on the 2nd floor so I guess I'm ok? 2nd thought ocean-front apartment is pretty cool.....



I'm all for global warming though, fuck cold weather. Chiles are a warm weather crop, so maybe they're behind global warming? :shocked:

[cheezydemon]

Yes, if you are on the second floor, you will last until a year or two later, when the ocean is lapping at Fargo, and your beach front bungalo is under water.;)

[wordwiz]

Not that it has anything to do with global warming but I have noticed a shift in the seasons over at least the last three years. Everything seems to be a month later, that is what use to be the mid-July to mid-August draught in now mid-August to mid-September (except this year and we still have seen few precious drops of rain).

We always had some very chilly, almost downright cold days in September, now those days don't come until mid to late October. April showers (our rainy season) are now May and half of June.

Of course, this is expected as the earth has to finish spinning on its axis by December 21, 2012 (12-21-12) when the world will end.

Mike

[ring sting]

OK, so let's say global wwarming is not occurring.

There are islands in the Pacific that are now getting close to being under water. Areas of Bangladesh have experienced localised coastal inundation. Most of Australia has been in drought for 10 years. Wordwiz mentions that the colder weather is coming later and later, but I didn't notice any posts in this forum complaining about a late start to spring, so therefore nth american winters are shorter. Crops are failing in Africa due to drought.

So if it isn't global warming causing this stuff, what is it? I could go with the explanation that this is just a phase of the earth that occurs perhaps every 2000 years, or some such thing. Yet if this is not the case, then a bih is a bih even if by another name.

[wordwiz]

ring sting,

Our last killing frost date doesn't seem to be getting later, but it is much later, almost a month, before hot weather sets in, at least in Ohio. When I was a kid (many, many full moons ago), we had lots of days in June and July when the temps would reach the mid to upper 90s; those days are now in very late July and August.

Mike

[imaguitargod]

So if it isn't global warming causing this stuff, what is it?
The cows are doing it....read the Death To The Cows page in my signature....it's all the info on the coming cowtastrify that you'll ever need. :shocked:

[moyboy]

I have to say that i agree with wordwiz in regards to the slight shifting of the seasons...

In my area i believe that the seasons have shifted by a month and have commented to one or two forum member of this in the past..

All four seasons (IMO) are coming later by a month on average.

I can't back this up scientifically, it's just my 30 years of observations, and listening to the folks that have lived this life longer than me...

[talas]

The cows are doing it....read the Death To The Cows page in my signature....it's all the info on the coming cowtastrify that you'll ever need. :shocked:

My friend the methane race is destroying us all :lol:

[moyboy]

The cows are doing it....:shocked:


You might not be to far wrong....

They say that Agriculture (very broad link back to passow's cow friends) is one of the biggest contributors to "global warming"???

[wordwiz]

Geez,

15 years ago, I was involved in a huge debate about cow farts in a CompuServe newsgroup.

I love cows, I eat beef at least once a day (except on Fridays during Lent). Cows are our friends, we need them as much as we need chickens, hogs and fish.

I'm scheming how I can sneak one into my shed and feed it during next spring and summer, and into ealy fall, so I can slaughter it and have all kinds of meat to eat. Not to mention, lots of fertilizer to spread.

Mike

[ring sting]

WW -- I stand corrected!

Oh, and there is/was a big debate here regarding greenhouse gas emissions, and whether agriculture would need to be included in emissions caps/surcharges. Pig farmers and beef growers weren't so keen on it.

BTW cows and pigs taste gooood, particularly w/ an appropriate chilli sauce.

[chuk hell]

Not sure if I buy into Global Warming but climate change does happen. Whether or not humans are causing it I don't know but I bet we sure ain't helping things. The drought and extreme heat here this summer are why my pepper crop failed. Just say'n. Last year I was happy it stayed warm until Jan. because I had a nice late harvest. This year... too hot; too dry...no pollination; no peppers. :(

Did GW have anything to do with that? Beats me.

That said....

Please keep politics out of this thread and I'll leave it open....

MMkay?

[POTAWIE]

I totally agree with Chuk, many people have left this forum due to political debates, and now we're even getting the F word in the tags:rolleyes:

[chilliman64]

I'm 35kms from the coast, I reckon the way things are going I'll have a beachfront property in about 20 yrs, just when I'm looking at retirement! who needs superannuation when you've got ocean views?!?!

[Novacastrian]

I for one do not buy into the whole global warming thing, my belief is that it is a natural occurance to have varying temperatures, it's been shown though history and will continue to be shown. To me it is just another way for the fat cats of this world to rip off the average Joe at every opportunity. (kinda like the Roman Catholic Church) ooops did i just say that or think it.. oh well.

[chilehunter]

awww chuk why ya gotta be the bringer of bad news ? :lol::P (J/K)

as for global warming, earth does its own thing. humans have not helped any but is not 100% at fault for global warming.

around here our winters have changed alot! from the times when I was a kid. we get some strange temps too, now where you could even be wearing shorts in the offical winter season & we lack moisture in winter & summer.
our forest zone is also shrinking & turning into prairie zone not all by humans. just certain trees/shrubs/grasses are dieing & being replaced by another type.

[chilehunter]

when you guys laugh about ocean front. if it really happened most of MN & WI would be underwater, infact they say it (great lakes) could go to the dakotas roughly this far out & all around to the other states & canada.

[Sickmont]

As long as it's followed by an ice age like the last global warming era(cretaceous period) is all i'm concerned about. I can't wait.

[DickT]

As long as it's followed by an ice age like the last global warming era(cretaceous period) is all i'm concerned about. I can't wait.

Digging the new avatar..................:party:

[cheezydemon]

"A Global Warning" on the discovery channel was eye opening.

Bogs in the arctic that had been frozen for 1000s of years are thawing and burping out huge bubbless of methane.

The soil cores that they extracted from miles deep showed alarming contrast between what has been the natural cycle of things, and what is occurring now.

Whether man tipped the balance or not, it is something we should be aware of, and we may need to curb some activities that are worsening it.

[texas blues]

Global warming. Economy in the shitter. Taliban on the move. Iran bringing the ultimate nuclear finger diddler online soon. Cowboys tanking without Romo....we don't seem to be happy without a swirling cesspool of BS revolving around us like the planets at all times. Peace sells. Nobody's buying. I want change too. That's it. No more beer.....only tequila..straight up.

Cheers, TB.

[cheezydemon]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............tequila!

:cheers: