Bailout goes down in flames

[wordwiz]

This is not about politics, though it seems to be a political topic.

I was glad to see the bailout go down. I am a conservative but have very Libertarian leanings.

When Congress and the Administration start talking about taxpayers - as a whole and without their say so - being told they have to buy stock in a company, especially one that is failing and IF the company turns around and improves, they will be get their money back, I get scared. This is a giant leap down the path to socialism, where the govenment decides what companies need to be promoted and which ones don't.

Our country was founded on the idea that individuals and families were responsible for themselves. Government was not supposed to be around for a hand out or even a hand up. Its main function was to provide national security, establish a common currency and facilliate trade.

To me, this bailout, like others that preceded it, was an attempt to save people from their own stupidity. A way to circumvent the Darwin theory. Instead of just awarding Darwin Awards, attaching billion dollar prizes to the recognition.

If I have a big garden, and many of the plants are doing great, but some are blighted, I'm not going to use up all my fertilizer and insecticides unless I KNOW - without any doubt, that I can turn those blighted plants around while at the same time making sure it doesn't spread. Nor am I going to spend time treating those while fruits worth harvesting stay on the vine too long and start to rotten.

Donald Trump has it right - sometimes it is necessary to have a cleansing, however painful it may be.

Mike

[imaguitargod]

God I love chaos!

[wordwiz]

God I love chaos!

Creating it, or participating in it? ;)

Mike

[ring sting]

Hi Mike,

I think the current crisis stems from the deregulation of the finance system, as well as the greed/stupidity of many and has its roots in neo-libralist economic policies.

There appears to be simply too much currency in the financial system, with banks being able to (effectively) create money by providing loans-to-equity on their holdings at ever increasing proportions. This coupled with new debt instuments has made for a destabilised economy that now threatens the world, not just the USA.

I agree that the Darwinian theory here should apply, but what will happen sadly is a further redistribution of wealth, as those with the capital now have an opportunity to buy up big whilst those that dont (most of us) can't. The gap between rich/poor grows wider.

Capitalism is failing as an economic model IMHO due to the greed of a minority. Socialism gets a bad rap, and yes, govt's should not intervene in failing financial entities. But, as you rightly say, they should provide security for the populace; be it in the form of military, water, power, health or economic.

And as for govt's promoting companies that should exist/not exist, this occurs all the time, in any political system. Currently, I can think of Haliburton, Delta, and GM being supported in a variety of ways that are not supported by market forces. And most of the farming sector by way of subsidies and trade protection.

RS

[DickT]

Creating it, or participating in it? ;)

Mike

Mike, This whole mortgage mess looks like something right out of the mafia handbook. I know that the big players in the media lean left, but not reporting some of the campaign contributions to some of these democrat senators is a disservice to the american people. If they sold bad paper to foreign banks since 2005, and out of the profit any bonus were paid to people who knew they were in trouble, they could be prosecuted under the RICO act. Lets face it, if its going under in 2008, they've been cooking the books for at least 5 yrs.

[AlabamaJack]

All I can say about this whole mess is I am glad I sold every share of stock I owned 6 weeks ago and put it in a fixed return (although low) account....

[Canuk Pepperhead]

I dont know sh@t about politics..I was just reminded who our new prime minister is..Dont ask me ive already forgotten lol..All I see is the fact you could get a house with a 100 year mortgage(stateside)then renewal came for tonnes everything went to sh@t.Who the hell in their right mind would do that?(get a 100 year mortgage).My buddy whos in his 30s bought a house with a 40 year mortgage and I gave him a blast..You cant afford a 20 year mortgage max its not your house for your budget.keep paying till your in your 70s ish??It doesnt make sence The way the avarage lifestyle goes he just might be dead from heart attack etc or cancer etc by that time if not hes working freedom 99(figure of speech)I know its a lot of blabbering but its affected the dollar in a major way..I feel it at work.I see it now in buisnesses both major and family owned.Some days now I worry about my own employment where I work(We HAD a heavy US clientel)Not no more..I could be within this conversation I could be way off but to me I had to put my (sorry IGG lol)2 cents in

[DickT]

I dont know sh@t about politics..I was just reminded who our new prime minister is..Dont ask me ive already forgotten lol..All I see is the fact you could get a house with a 100 year mortgage(stateside)then renewal came for tonnes everything went to sh@t.Who the hell in their right mind would do that?(get a 100 year mortgage).My buddy whos in his 30s bought a house with a 40 year mortgage and I gave him a blast..You cant afford a 20 year mortgage max its not your house for your budget.keep paying till your in your 70s ish??It doesnt make sence The way the avarage lifestyle goes he just might be dead from heart attack etc or cancer etc by that time if not hes working freedom 99(figure of speech)I know its a lot of blabbering but its affected the dollar in a major way..I feel it at work.I see it now in buisnesses both major and family owned.Some days now I worry about my own employment where I work(We HAD a heavy US clientel)Not no more..I could be within this conversation I could be way off but to me I had to put my (sorry IGG lol)2 cents in

the sad part is they sold this worthless paper all over the world.

[wordwiz]

RingSting,

I don't necessarily agree that only the rich will benefit from this. A lot of the rich have loads of their monhey stuck into the stock market. Let's face reality - I'm on the poor side of the scale. I don't own a share of stock. But I'm 54 years old, self-employed, my house is payed off, I don't have any credit card debt. Not bragging, just stating facts.

Not holding me as an example - I know lots and lots of people who were like me - they bought a house based on how much money they could afford to pay when they took the mortgage out. They put a lot of their hard-earned money forward as a down payment so they had a huge stake in keeping their home.

Politicians, as a whole, rule for one reason - so they can be re-elected. Changing the rules so people didn't have to put a significant amount of money down made it easy for people to buy houses, which greatly helped every sector of the economy. But it was a house of cards that the first time a wind blew, was going to collapse.

TANSTAAFL - We spent hours in Econ 201 learning this. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, someone has to pay for the food.

When personal responsibility and accountability goes out the door, when mom and dad are there to wipe our butts when we crap in our pants instead of telling us we have to clean up ourselves and learn that when to need to crap occurs - we need to crap and not pretend to hold it in - that's going to hell in a handbasket.

I thank all the Dems and Pubs who had the courage to say this bill fleeces all of us and voted no.

Maybe instead of urging citizens to be prepared for a natural disaster such as a flood, hurricane or whatever, gov ought to be promoting the idea of being able to survive without it being there.

Mike

[DevilDuck]

Dems voted it down because it wasn't handing out enough money.

GOP voted it down because it handed out too much.

[QuadShotz]

I'm a Canadian citizen living in the US for the last 40 yrs, so I'm just waiting until anarchy to move to Austrailia, Scotland or Finland, and disappear from society in general.

BTW, this hasnt been a Democracy in a long time.

Or, read the Federalist Papers (http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/) to learn what this country was supposed to be.

We lost our freedom when we stopped being taught what it is. Call it the 'dumbing' of America. Which only profits those who can afford education. If everyone was smart, who'd power the Corporate State?

You say..oh I can get a degree and make something of myself...working for a corporation or gov't entity, eh?

We are a country of serfs and lords, just like that we fought to escape.

Welcome to the feudal system once again...it's human nature.

Capitalism only works for those who have Captital.

-QS

[lostmind]

I was positive this was going to go thru. I am upset that I didn't have free capital to invest today boy...

btw I have a 40 yr mortgage, but I pay it down fast enough that we will be mortgage free before I am 40 yrs old (I'm 31). The 40 yr mortgage is simply so I can go to the bank and say I want to lower my weekly payments to something very small if I ever have a money issue. I'm self employed and have no guarantee of future income. For me the 40yr mortgage is a great safety blanket.