Dorest Nagas (aka Naga Morrich)

[darlochileman]

This article was posted on another forum yesterday (its not an April Fool) but made me laugh.

===============================================
The chilli so hot you need gloves
By Simon de Bruxelles

THE world’s hottest chilli pepper does not come from a tropical hot spot where the locals are impervious to its fiery heat but a smallholding in deepest Dorset.

Some chillis are fierce enough to make your eyes water. Anyone foolhardy enough to eat a whole Dorset Naga would almost certainly require hospital treatment.

The pepper, almost twice as hot as the previous record- holder, was grown by Joy and Michael Michaud in a poly- tunnel at their market garden. The couple run a business called Peppers by Post and spent four years developing the Dorset Naga.

They knew the 2cm-long specimens were hot because they had to wear gloves and remove the seeds outdoors when preparing them for drying, but had no idea they had grown a record-breaker.

Some customers complained the peppers were so fiery that even half a small one would make a curry too hot to eat. Others loved them and the Michauds sold a quarter of a million Dorset Nagas last year. At the end of last season Mrs Michaud sent a sample to a laboratory in America out of curiosity. The owner had never tested anything like it.

According to Mrs Michaud, the hottest habañero peppers popular in chilli-eating competitions in the US generally measure about 100,000 units on the standard Scoville scale, named after its inventor, Wilbur Scoville, who developed it in 1912. At first the scale was a subjective taste test but it later developed into the measure of capsaicinoids present. The hottest chilli pepper in The Guinness Book of Records is a Red Savina habañero with a rating of 570,000 Scoville Heat Units (SHU).

Mrs Michaud was stunned when the Dorset Naga gave a reading of nearly 900,000SHU. A fresh sample was sent to a lab in New York used by the American Spice Trade Association and recorded a mouth-numbing 923,000SHUs.

Mrs Michaud said: "The man in the first lab was so excited — he’d never had one even half as hot as that. The second lab took a long time because they were checking it carefully as it was so outrageously high."

The Dorset Naga was grown from a plant that originated in Bangladesh. The Michauds bought their original plant in an oriental store in Bournemouth. Mrs Michaud said: "We weren’t even selecting the peppers for hotness but for shape and flavour. There is an element of machismo in peppers that we aren’t really interested in. When the results of the heat tests came back I was gobsmacked."

The couple are now seeking Plant Variety Protection from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which will mean that no one else can sell the seeds.

Mrs Michaud, 48, has run the company with her husband at West Bexington, near Dorchester, for ten years. Mr Michaud, 56, has been a regular on the television chef Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall’s River Cottage series, advising on vegetable growing.

Anyone wanting to try the Dorset Naga will have to be patient as chillis are harvested only from July on. In Bangladesh the chillies grow in temperatures of well over 100F (38C) but in Dorset they thrive in polytunnels.

Aktar Miha, from the Indus Bangladeshi restaurant in Bournemouth, said that even in its home country the naga chilli was treated with respect. "It is used in some cooking, mainly with fish curries, but most people don’t cook with it. They hold it by the stalk and just touch their food with it," he said.

"It has a refreshing smell and a very good taste but you don’t want too much of it. It is a killer chilli and you have to be careful and wash your hands and the cutting board. If you don’t know what you are doing it could blow your head off."

===============================================

You can find further information on them and how they got there name here:

http://www.thechileman.org/results.php?submit=Search&chile=1&find=naga+morrich&heat=Any&origin=Any&genus=Any

Even though I don't sell anything, I hope he doesnt seek PVP on the name Naga Morrich. Im totally against companys have exclusive rights to sole varieties & I dont like the way this is heading!!
Mark
www.thechileman.org :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[bubbaschili]

i read an artical about this the other day and they rate the red savina habanero at 577 thousand scoville and this pepper is rated 876 thousand

anyone here gonna try and grow em?? :onfire:

[Tina Brooks]

Good luck getting the seeds. It's not the best kept secret in Bangladesh for no good reason.

I'm working on an article for my newsletter and several blogs... When it's done, I'll post a link.

T

[darlochileman]

Hi Tina,

From review my grwing notes from last year, Ive put together further information on this scintilatingly hot variety on the chileman site and you can find this information here:

http://www.thechileman.org/naga_morich.php

Hope you find it interesting

Mark

PS I have some seeds and pods avaailable and will be posting them on ebay shortly

[Tina Brooks]

Thanks for the link. it's a great article.

T

[bubbaschili]

that snake bite stuff in the artical is that for sale?? or just a recipe??

[Tina Brooks]

I think you're supposed to make the sauce yourself, Bubba.

T

[darlochileman]

you right tina,

I suppoose I could have sold it but now ive already revealed my secret recipie :wink:

[bubbaschili]

how much would you charge me to make up a bottle and mail it to me??

[darlochileman]

Im not sure the bottle would survive the journey. The recipie is very easy to follow - all you need is the Naga's!! (you could make a tamer version with Habs, it will still be gorgeous)

[darlochileman]

ARRRRHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Ive been deseeding some Naga Morich pods tonight - and didnt practice what I preached (on the seed saving guide), I didnt wear any gloves - BIG MISTAKE Im now suffering from 'Naga Hand'.

ARHHH F@#* ME!! - After deseeding the pods I thought I would do a good deed for the missus and finish off the washing up. What ever Capascin was on my hands/the chopping board and seeve, it must have mixed with the water in the watching up bowl and I effectively soaked my hands in the stuff for a good ten minutes.

The missus says the kitchen now smells like 'deep heat' - the pods sure are pungent.

Although I didnt feel the burn at the time - I certainity do now!!!.

If feels like someone has lit a match and are now holding the flame next to the skin between my fingers!!

I tried Yoghut & a milk solution to easy the pain but its not working.

ARHHHHHH! I can't type anymore. Im going to have to rinse my hand(again) in cold water. The scary thing is Im desperate for a wee but Im going to have to hold on for a bit longer until the burn subsides as theres no way Im risking burning another sensitive area!!

Mark

[imaguitargod]

The scary thing is Im desperate for a wee but Im going to have to hold on for a bit longer until the burn subsides as theres no way Im risking burning another sensitive area!!
I simathise with you. Actually, I once took a wee after cutting up peppers...needless to say, I think we ALL know what happened next.

I trade you some cayannes(or money) for some seeds.

[Tina Brooks]

OMG Mark, you know suffer from the worst possible disease known to man... Hunan hand.

Soak your hands in a bowl of water with ice cubes. It will help.

T

[chuk hell]

Fascinating.

860,000 SHUs (!?)

I want those seeds. :twisted:

[setzuanfire]

They look alot like fataliis-do they taste similarly? (can you taste anything at that heat level?) Would love to try out some seeds. brookthecook

[darlochileman]

Hi Guys,

You don't grow these peppers for the cooking. They have a very sharp lenony/acid taste which I think is rather unplesent and the smell is also weird. I put a couple slithers in a chilli con carne the other week and had to throw it out as the heat was too much for me. I agree that they are very similar to fatalii although a little hotter. Another drawback is that once the pods reach their mature orange, the degrade/rot very quickly (they have very thin walls). You can put them in the freezer to prolong their livse but remember to cover them with clingfilm or your chesse will smell of nagas!!

Mark

[Tina Brooks]

They look alot like fataliis-do they taste similarly? (can you taste anything at that heat level?) Would love to try out some seeds. brookthecook

Supposedly, the seeds can be purchased on EBay.

T

[imaguitargod]

They look alot like fataliis-do they taste similarly? (can you taste anything at that heat level?) Would love to try out some seeds. brookthecook

Supposedly, the seeds can be purchased on EBay.

T
They can, but they'll cost you many pritty pennies.

[Tina Brooks]

They look alot like fataliis-do they taste similarly? (can you taste anything at that heat level?) Would love to try out some seeds. brookthecook

Supposedly, the seeds can be purchased on EBay.

T
They can, but they'll cost you many pritty pennies.

Funny that...

I think maybe when I get these peppers in quantity, I'm going to ruin the market and give the danged seeds away. Grrrr.

I hate that.

T

[tinner666]

[quote="T
Funny that...

I think maybe when I get these peppers in quantity, I'm going to ruin the market and give the danged seeds away. Grrrr.

I hate that.

T[/quote]

I'll take you up on that. The wife and I would plant a few , and a friend who's had horticulture cousres in college. :D

[Tina Brooks]

lol, no doubt you're not alone!

I'll let you know how it goes.

T

[imaguitargod]

DEAR GOD SOMEONE SEND ME SEEDS!!!




:wink:

[Tina Brooks]

lol

[Tina Brooks]

DEAR GOD SOMEONE SEND ME SEEDS!!!




:wink:

I'm working on it... really I am.

In the meanwhile, I've written an article on the conversations that I have had recently with one Joy Michaud. The April Fool's Joke is on us... These peppers are real.

You can read the article on Joe and Lin's Hot Zone blog. (http://www.thehotzoneonline.com/blog/2006/05/03/michaud-dorset-naga-an-interview-by-tina-brooks/)

T

[ChefEx]

Nice job with the artical. Great read...journalist in a prior life? :D

[Tina Brooks]

LOL, not a journalist exactly. I used to be a free-lance financial writer. I once wrote a very scathing review of Nortel Networks before the muck hit the fan.

Peppers are more fun than investments.

T

[ChefEx]

Good for you, Lost my shirt to the F'n telcoms. They're still a huge company though, they must own the largest tin can and string collection in Canada. :lol:

[Tina Brooks]

lol, purty near. They represented nearly 30% of the Toronto Stock Exchange when I wrote the article. And... with 20/20 hindsight, they deserved every word.

Anyway, so now you know. Glad to hear that I can still write when it has nothing to do with money. :)

T

[imaguitargod]

DEAR GOD SOMEONE SEND ME SEEDS!!!

A very kind and generous soul on this forums has granted my wish and is sending me 10 seeds...so now I will be able to have the hottest peppers on earth in my backyard(and soon to be in my belly)!!! :D :D :D :D :D

:: does a happy dance ::

"Happy dance! Happy dance! This is how I do my happy dance!"

[Tina Brooks]

DEAR GOD SOMEONE SEND ME SEEDS!!!

A very kind and generous soul on this forums has granted my wish and is sending me 10 seeds...so now I will be able to have the hottest peppers on earth in my backyard(and soon to be in my belly)!!! :D :D :D :D :D

:: does a happy dance ::

"Happy dance! Happy dance! This is how I do my happy dance!"

And they didn't send ME any??? Hmmph. :flamethrower:

[imaguitargod]

And they didn't send ME any??? Hmmph. :flamethrower:
My eyes are prittier.

[Tina Brooks]

And they didn't send ME any??? Hmmph. :flamethrower:
My eyes are prittier.

That explains it. :cry:

[darlochileman]

Hi Tina,

An excellent article and avery good read. I told you the rumours were true!!

PM me your address details and you wish will be granted

Mark :wink:

[P_Schneider]

Here is a UK source.

http://www.dorsetnaga.com/

[ChefEx]

Unfortunately they only ship inside the UK. Now if we knew someone in the UK....ummm

[darlochileman]

They also only sell immature green pods with no viable seeds - for obvious reasons!!!. I think they are planning to sell seeds in the future if their application to PVP the variety is accepted.

[Remos]

They also only sell immature green pods with no viable seeds - for obvious reasons!!!. I think they are planning to sell seeds in the future if their application to PVP the variety is accepted.
Funny thing is, after reading their site and all. It specifically says Dorset nage is NOT daga morrich, in contrary to the topic title, or am I missing anything here?
Other than that, what a great topic!

[imaguitargod]

Other than that, what a great topic!
We aim to please...some of us aim to kill tho... :scared:

[Tina Brooks]

They also only sell immature green pods with no viable seeds - for obvious reasons!!!. I think they are planning to sell seeds in the future if their application to PVP the variety is accepted.
Funny thing is, after reading their site and all. It specifically says Dorset nage is NOT daga morrich, in contrary to the topic title, or am I missing anything here?
Other than that, what a great topic!

You're missing something. The Dorset Nage, several years ago was the naga morich. Now, it's the Dorset Naga. It's a much larger plant, with larger, hotter fruit.

T

[DEFCON Creator]

Now, it's the Dorset Naga. It's a much larger plant, with larger, hotter fruit.

T

And to think, I grew up thinking a pepper was a vegetable. :lol:

[Tina Brooks]

Now, it's the Dorset Naga. It's a much larger plant, with larger, hotter fruit.

T

And to think, I grew up thinking a pepper was a vegetable. :lol:

S'ok, John, ya learn something new every day. ;)

T

[Remos]

That's what I suspected, thanks for clearing that up. hopefully they will get into selling seeds soon. Sounds like an interresting pepper to me, to say the least :D and defintely one to try:)
They also only sell immature green pods with no viable seeds - for obvious reasons!!!. I think they are planning to sell seeds in the future if their application to PVP the variety is accepted.
Funny thing is, after reading their site and all. It specifically says Dorset nage is NOT daga morrich, in contrary to the topic title, or am I missing anything here?
Other than that, what a great topic!

You're missing something. The Dorset Nage, several years ago was the naga morich. Now, it's the Dorset Naga. It's a much larger plant, with larger, hotter fruit.

T

[Tina Brooks]

That's what I suspected, thanks for clearing that up. hopefully they will get into selling seeds soon. Sounds like an interresting pepper to me, to say the least :D and defintely one to try:)
They also only sell immature green pods with no viable seeds - for obvious reasons!!!. I think they are planning to sell seeds in the future if their application to PVP the variety is accepted.
Funny thing is, after reading their site and all. It specifically says Dorset nage is NOT daga morrich, in contrary to the topic title, or am I missing anything here?
Other than that, what a great topic!

You're missing something. The Dorset Nage, several years ago was the naga morich. Now, it's the Dorset Naga. It's a much larger plant, with larger, hotter fruit.

T

If you've read my article, you'll know that we had a plant that we believe is the naga morich, if those fruit are any example of what to expect from the Naga Dorset, I'd love to try it too. We're talking about five years worth of selecting the biggest and the best nagas from the cream of the crop... If Joy and Michael continue along this vein, and I believe they will, these peppers will just get better with time. I personally recommend anyone in their neighbourhood also check out the rest of their offerings. If they're this picky about the naga, imagine how they are about everything else. I bet they grow some of the nicest tomatillos in England.

You have to know though, and I touched on this in the article, the Michauds only ship to UK addresses. So, if you aren't in England, you won't be able to order them.

T

[darlochileman]

Arh!!!!!

But my question is:

Is the Dorset Naga really a different variety to Naga Morich? (the claim its a variant after many years of careful selection) Ive grown Naga Morich for the last two years now after originally obtaining the seeds from a bangladeshi importer (incidently the same one that suppliers Naga Morich Pods to the shop in Bournmouth were the Michards orginally got their seed/plant depending on which article you read) from.

In my experience there is much pod diversity on the same plant, I cannot see how you could careful select onlt the biggest pods so that furture plants only produce these pod shapes.Some are longer and more pointy than others but no matter what the pod size they are all the same heat (as far as I can tell as anything in this heat range all taste the same)

I have done no 'special pod selection' or any other jiggery pokery on the plants Ive grown, but can you spot the difference from the Dorset Nagas to the Darlo Nagas/ Chileman Nagas? (no Im not going to PVP the name)

Pod Diversity:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/NagaPodVarieity.jpg

Imatre Pods:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/ImmatureNagaPods3.jpg

Naga Cross Section:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/NagaCross2.jpg

Nagas in their thress maturity stages:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/Nagasripening2.jpg

The only thing I would say, is that Naga Morich (and as far as Im concerned the dorset naga) does not mature to red. Its matures to dark orange. My bangladeshi friend confirms this is the case also.

Does anyone else think the red dorset naga looks a bit too red on their home page? Maybe thats why no one has ever seen a red one/they only green pods!

http://www.dorsetnaga.com/

Mark :D

[Tina Brooks]

Arh!!!!!

But my question is:

Is the Dorset Naga really a different variety to Naga Morich? (the claim its a variant after many years of careful selection) Ive grown Naga Morich for the last two years now after originally obtaining the seeds from a bangladeshi importer (incidently the same one that suppliers Naga Morich Pods to the shop in Bournmouth were the Michards orginally got their seed/plant depending on which article you read) from.

In my experience there is much pod diversity on the same plant, I cannot see how you could careful select onlt the biggest pods so that furture plants only produce these pod shapes.Some are longer and more pointy than others but no matter what the pod size they are all the same heat (as far as I can tell as anything in this heat range all taste the same)

I have done no 'special pod selection' or any other jiggery pokery on the plants Ive grown, but can you spot the difference from the Dorset Nagas to the Darlo Nagas/ Chileman Nagas? (no Im not going to PVP the name)

Pod Diversity:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/NagaPodVarieity.jpg

Imatre Pods:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/ImmatureNagaPods3.jpg

Naga Cross Section:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/NagaCross2.jpg

Nagas in their thress maturity stages:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/Nagasripening2.jpg

The only thing I would say, is that Naga Morich (and as far as Im concerned the dorset naga) does not mature to red. Its matures to dark orange. My bangladeshi friend confirms this is the case also.

Does anyone else think the red dorset naga looks a bit too red on their home page? Maybe thats why no one has ever seen a red one/they only green pods!

http://www.dorsetnaga.com/

Mark :D

Well that's a really good buncha questions, Mark.

In order to understand what you're asking, you need to understand what Plant Variety Protection is. In order to understand that, you have to realize that PVP is all about protecting cultivated plant varieties. So even if technically the Dorset Naga is really only a meticulously improved variety of naga morich, it is still a meticulously improved variety. and THAT is what makes it eligible for PVP.

Where you seem to be making a requirement for distinction is also where the words PVP differ from plant patents. Plant patents can only be granted to cultivars which are created by scientific methods, ie not by seeds. PVPs were created in the 70's to protect the commercial viability of the plants for the creator of them, so that they could recoup the costs of having created this plant, much like plant patents, except that they are only good for 18 years, rather than 20. (I don't know what the rules are for UK PVPs).

Not just any plant is eligible, there is a stringent procedure that one must follow in order to qualify. First and foremost is that the plant must have significant differences from the original plant. In this case, the plant itself is a goodly bit larger than the smaller naga morich and the fruit are much larger and hotter; you've seen the pictures, Mark, these aren't quite the same peppers and ultimately, that is because Michael and Joy have spent the last five years making their naga bigger and better than the original. That in and of itself, in the horticulture world makes them eligible for those protections.

This link provides some detail about what PVP is and how one gets it for their plants. (http://www.nal.usda.gov/pgdic/Probe/v2n2/plant.html)

To answer your question: is it really a different variety. Absolutely it is. It took many years to make it so.

As for your naga.

In my experience there is much pod diversity on the same plant, I cannot see how you could careful select onlt the biggest pods so that furture plants only produce these pod shapes.Some are longer and more pointy than others but no matter what the pod size they are all the same heat (as far as I can tell as anything in this heat range all taste the same)

As I reported in my article, the Michauds weren't selecting for heat, they were selecting for larger fruit and heartier plants. The extra heat was a surprising side-effect.

As for all tasting the same... since anything after a certain heat level tastes the same to me, of course they all taste the same to you, you can't take the heat... If you want to see what your HPLC count is, you'll have to have the test done. As far as I can tell, the only reason that Joy and Michael even thought to do so was because a certain person who we all consider a bigwig in the hot food industry pushed the Michauds to get their peppers tested. Otherwise, I doubt they would have done this. I will add too, that research that I got from the Michauds showed me an HPLC done that clocked over 1 million.

Maybe YOU have the world's hottest pepper... I'll reiterate the Michaud's challenge for you here... get your peppers tested, the worst that can happen is that you get a lower heat rating.

I have done no 'special pod selection' or any other jiggery pokery on the plants Ive grown, but can you spot the difference from the Dorset Nagas to the Darlo Nagas/ Chileman Nagas? (no Im not going to PVP the name)

Having done no special pod selection or jiggery pokery, as you put it, you are not about to be eligible for PVP anyway. As it is, you grow peppers. When they become ripe, you pick a couple of the best fruit off the plant and you set them aside to seed your crop for next year. The others, I assume, you eat. Nothing special, no jiggery pokery. Right.

In the case of Joy and Michael, they sell the fruit, so it is in their best interest to keep the best fruit for next years' crop. The key difference here is that Joy and Michael are agronomists and what that means is that they approach growing peppers just a little differently than you or I would. Dictionary.com defines a·gron·o·my as the application of the various soil and plant sciences to soil management and crop production; scientific agriculture. That definition alone tells me that they are probably keeping scientific notes and sketches and measuring soil ph and testing the water they put on their veg and whatever other scientific things an agronomist might do to their plants in order to create the best propogation they possibly can. In other words doing special things, ie jiggery pokery, granted, you make it sound a lot more esoteric than it probably is. lol

You can rest assured though that when Michael and Joy's work comes up to whatever agency it is that is in charge of PVP in the UK, it will be gone over with a fine tooth comb. And if it qualifies, it will grant them the PVP Dorset Naga, and if it doesn't qualify, they won't grant it. But based on what I know about Joy and Michael, they'll receive it. It is after all their scientific specialty.

In the meantime... You have naga morich, you can easily do what they have done; do the jiggery pokery, meet the requirements and you too can own your very own PVP. :)

As for them turning orange or turning red.

I will reiterate. I had a plant I had been told was a Mr. Naga, I am now certain that Mr. Naga is the same as the naga morich from which the Michauds grew the Dorset Naga. I can assure you that not only didn't these peppers turn orange, they turned from green to bright red. I am curious as to what you think would be gained by my pretending that these fruit are red rather than orange as yours obviously are? That said, the very idea that the Michauds would claim that orange peppers are red doesn't make sense. If they are orange, why not simply say they are orange?

Furthermore, I've been doing some kicking around and as little as I know about growing, I think it's safe to say I know a lot about peppers (as ingredients in hot sauce anyway) and I know that the naga morich and the Naga Dorset are NOT the only breed of this variety of pepper available. They come under many different names and they do seem to come in different colours. But, I assure you that since the plant that I had bore only red fruit and because the plants that the Michauds are growing bear red fruit, I can safely say, they are most definitely red peppers.

Interestingly though, since yours are obviously orange and not red, I ask you, are you sure that you have naga morich? ;)

You know my Peppermaster goes through a lot of trouble to create our sauces and we spend a lot of time test marketing the recipes before taking them public and because of that, we protect our recipes very carefully. And in fact over the last two years we have been embroiled in trademark battles because someone doesn't respect our right to the trademark, because they don't think we should have it.

Perhaps that alone gives me more comprehension for PVP than any non-agronomist should be expected to have, but not only do I hope that Joy and Michael receive their PVP, I hope it is respected.

There is a pepper over here that happens to be a really great breed of habanero, called the Red Savina Habanero, and I've bought the peppers from a non-licensed grower, knowing full well that they were unlicensed Red Savinas and out of respect for the GNS Spice PVP, we refused to use the name.

You are in a unique position, Mark, you are in the Michaud's neighbourhood. I'm curious, why not hop on over to Joy and Michaels and have a looksee, say hello and introduce yourself? If you ask really nicely, Joy might give you a tour of the polytunnels. She tells me that some of their early variety chilies are about 3 inches long.

T

[imaguitargod]

of course they all taste the same to you, you can't take the heat

:lol: :lol:



:wink:

[Tina Brooks]

of course they all taste the same to you, you can't take the heat

:lol: :lol:



:wink:

Funny, that's the exact look that the Peppermaster gets on his face when I tell him a new recipe is too hot for me to taste anything. :p

T

[ChefEx]

Whew...Tina, I think someone hired you to post here. Nice questions Mark and good reponses. I learned that I need to learn a lot more on this subject.

[Tina Brooks]

Whew...Tina, I think someone hired you to post here. Nice questions Mark and good reponses. I learned that I need to learn a lot more on this subject.

I'm a bit of a geek when it comes to this stuff, Chef. lol... When you figure out who hired me... Tell them they owe me more than a few paycheques. ;)

T

[darlochileman]

Hi Tina,

Wow what a great response!!

Thank you for that - I understand a lot more about PVP now and trademarking. To be honest I am an amatuer grower and am not that bothered about seeking PVP or the fame attached to it. What annoyed me originally was the thought that Micheal & Joy (who I have met and have no problem with - they have to make a living after all) were seeking to be the sole supplier of pods and prevent us obtaining viable seed and growing them for ourselves to protect they market position. This is why I have been librelly sending out free seeds to all my pod pals across the world as well as putting a few btaches on ebay to riase funds for the chileman sites hosting costs. Naga Morich was virtually unheard of a few years ago until I introduced it to growers on another forum in the UK. Its certainly better known and seeds are easier to come by now!!

I stand be my claim that the Dorset Naga is pretty much the same as Naga Morich. One of my plants last year was much larger than the others and had a higher proportion of larger elongagted, pointy fruits than the others despite the seed coming from an isolate plant from the previous year. The orignial seed (pods) I got my hands on came from the same bangladeshi importer.Having siad that, it doest rule out the possibility of their being several versions of the Naga morich in the intila batch of pods.

The puzzle is the maturity colour and we definately need to exchange notes next time I get the opportunity to meet Michael & Joy (probably in August).

Anyway, I really love Naga morich. It is a magical pepper and nothing like other 170 or so varieties I have grown. They certainitly kick the Red Savinas arse and were much hotter that the Fatallis, Choc Habs, Datil, Caribean Reds and Goat peppers I have grown (subject to local growing conditions and the Darlington soil!!) Seeds are on their way to you and I will be interested to see what you think when you grow them out.

PS My Naga 'Snake bite' Hot sauce recipie is a bit of fun and something I have developed for others to try. Its at the bottom of the page on the link below. Ive never even thought about trademarking it although I probably would do if I was in the hot sauce buiness. You may what to give it a try sometime.

http://www.thechileman.org/naga_morich.php

Again thank you for your very comprhensive and thought provoking response. It must have taken you ages to write that!!

This is why this is such a great forum and good source of information.

Mark

[Tina Brooks]

Hi Mark,

You must have realized by now, that I'm a bit of a wordsmith. I used to write for a living, now I just market and sell hot pepper sauces.

Joy and Michael aren't seeking to be the sole pod suppliers of the Dorset Naga, they ARE the sole supplier. That is the nature of PVP.

Let's be very clear on this. You can buy these pods from the Michauds... when they have them. THAT is what they do. You will also be able to buy the seed from these folks, when they have them. You will simply not be allowed to cultivate and sell using the name Dorset Naga without the Michauds permission and this for 18 years.

I will note that in the article that I linked to, about PVP, it states that several thousand seed are required to go on file with the PVP people. I would assume that this plus the fact that all of their plants for the year are planted, the Michauds are keeping whatever other seed they might have, (if any) close to home... in case of crop failure, maybe). I would, wouldn't you? That is more than likely why you can't get these peppers or seeds now.

The scientific work that has gone into developing Dorset Naga is not just a fluke bigger plant with bigger fruit, and if it is, you can trust that the Michaud's won't get the PVP. But I believe that they will. These are not a pair of hacks playing their hand at gardening.

You know what I don't understand? Why are you so hesitant to allow Michael and Joy the credit for their work? Do you really think that two World Class Agronomists would apply for PVP without having the scientific backup???

You might not realize this, so I'll point it out to you. You come across as thinking that Joy and Michael are scamming the world, and that just isn't the case.

Think about it. How would you feel if someone suddenly came in and told you that you shouldn't be allowed to put your name on your pepper encyclopedia? After all, it's not like someone else couldn't easily amass all that information and put it in one place. The answer... YOU get the credit because YOU did the work. Simple.

I am curious about one thing that you said:

Naga Morich was virtually unheard of a few years ago until I introduced it to growers on another forum in the UK. Its certainly better known and seeds are easier to come by now!!

I have been searching for this pepper since Mr. Naga fruited. I posted pictures all over the internet and nobody knew what I had, as a matter of fact, the discussion that I had with you on Virtual Pepper left me believing I had something similar to naga morich, but that it wasn't because it was red. To be faithful, you even posted yesterday that these peppers don't turn red. Well, then maybe the Michauds have and I HAD one of those other varieties of pepper that isn't exactly a naga morich, but is pretty darned close to it, because both these peppers turn red.

I don't know where you were on that that day, but on April 3, I received DeWitt's newsletter. And there was a picture of Mr. Naga! That was what motivated me to contact Joy... Me and about 1000 journalists.

If Joy and Michael hadn't posted their HPLC results, I still wouldn't have an idea what Mr. Naga was. And, truth be told, you and I would not be having this discussion.

If we're to give credit where it is due for bringing the existence of this pepper to the WORLD, I would be giving it to Dave DeWitt, the vast majority of anyone on this side of the pond knows about this pepper because of HIS newsletter. I don't know WHO called Dave DeWitt's attention to the pepper, but Dave DeWitt ran with the ball.

As for naga morich seeds suddenly being easier to come by... I've been in this business far too long and lived through the last couple of years of Naga Jolokia fever to believe that all these naga morich seeds suddenly for sale everywhere really are naga morich and if they are, I'm not giving much value to their viability. After all, these peppers ARE harvested green... so... given that this is chock full in the middle of off-season, where do these seeds come from??? Maybe growing up a stone's throw from the US, I'm skeptical, but really... I'm skeptical.

Yes, you had the orange naga morich peppers last August, but so did how many million Bangladeshis and Indians. I'd love to be able to tell you that you broke the news of naga morich to the world, but until Joy and Michael broke the news of the results of their HPLC test, it just wasn't that big a deal to anyone, in fact it was pretty ipso facto, as if ya these were really hot, but nobody was going ballistic about them. Suddenly, BECAUSE of the Michaud HPLC test, it's a big deal. That's to their credit for having had the test done.

If you want to see if the naga morich are similar in heat levels to the Dorset Naga, the only way to find out is to have your peppers tested. That alone won't give you PVP but it will give you the right to say you have the World's Hottest Pepper, and will make you eligible to get your name into Guinness. :)

T

[staffing]

The scary thing is Im desperate for a wee but Im going to have to hold on for a bit longer until the burn subsides as theres no way Im risking burning another sensitive area!!
I simathise with you. Actually, I once took a wee after cutting up peppers...needless to say, I think we ALL know what happened next.

I trade you some cayannes(or money) for some seeds.
===========================
LOL!!!

I did the same thing after making habanero salsa....once. Only once. I wear latex now. :oops:

[darlochileman]

Hi Tina,

Ive just read back my email and I agree with you that I come very badly. I certainitly didnt mean to. I must apologise particularly for been so sceptical of the good work done by Michael & Joy. I totally miss understood the PVP thing ( I thought they were deliberately trying to inhibit supply of seed for the rest of us which I now know if way off the mark). I have no problem in Michael and Joy getting credit for their work, infact I applauded them for raising the profile of the humble chile pepper growing across the world - its a shame most of the publicity was released on the 1st April (no wonder many people are sceptical but as you rightly say - this is no April fools joke. I know from persoanal expierence that the Naga Morich is blisteringly hot, I wasent aware of all the scientific work/documentation they has obviously been done behind the scene for the improved dorest naga. They are obviously not just trying to pass off the standrad Naga morich as something else for commercial purposes. The red/orange maturity colour is probably the clincher for me. My 'Naga Morich' peppers are those widely used by the Bangladeshi community and definately dont mature to red. The do go a very dark orange (almost red) and then degrade very quickly. They do not go the intense bright red of the Dorset naga as shown on the dorset naga site.

As for your quote that naga morich seeds suddenly being easier to come by........
'I've been in this business far too long and lived through the last couple of years of Naga Jolokia fever to believe that all these naga morich seeds suddenly for sale everywhere really are naga morich and if they are, I'm not giving much value to their viability'

I totally agree with you here. Im one of the culprits for dispersing Naga Morich seed (spurred on by the thought of spreading seed around the world before it may by restricted under PVP - a wrong assumption I now know!!) although many other Naga seed suppliers seem to have sprung up from everywhere over the last month or so. All I can say is that I can guarantee that you will get good germiantion rates from the viable Naga Morich seeds I will send you, so that you and others can grow them out for yourselves.

As Im based in the UK, Im also more than happy to act as the UK contact for obtaining & sending you all 'Dorset Naga seed' when it becomes available. That way we can all grow them both out (and any other Naga's out there!) to seen the differences for ourselves.

Would you be happy to be the central contact on that side of the pond?

Im sorry for the way I came across. Im glad I only grow peppers for fun and do not to make a living put of it and all the pressures that entails. Putting thechileman site together is depressing my enough!!

Mark

PS What is the hardest job. Writing for a living or marketing hot sauces?

[imaguitargod]

PS What is the hardest job. Writing for a living or marketing hot sauces?
Acting. :evil:

:roll:

[DEFCON Creator]

PS What is the hardest job. Writing for a living or marketing hot sauces?

Oh please. Try cleaning out underground hazmat holding tanks from the inside. :!:

[Tina Brooks]

To Jonathan's credit... Acting is pretty hard but multiple call-backs without getting the part are much more difficult.

To John's credit... I don't want to ever learn first hand how difficult it is to clean out a hazmat drum.

Honestly, Mark, I don't know that either is really difficult. I really enjoy doing both so much.

The hardest part of writing though, is giving up control of your words to an editor. (Which is why I didn't sell my Dorset Naga article).

[stew007]

I had Naga pods from peppersbypost on a couple of occasions last year, those ones were orange, not red and were unbelievably hot. My best guess was that these pods were ripe. I look forward to buying more peppers from them this year, great service.

8)

[Tina Brooks]

They shipped to Scotland??? Oh, now I'm jealous... I wonder if Canada counts as a UK address???

T

[darlochileman]

Hi Tina,

Here are a few more photos of Naga morich (the orange ones) so you know what those seeds will turn into wink: )

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/NagaMorich5.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/BowlofNagas.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/NagaMorichMaturePods.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y295/thechileman/Naga%20Morich%20Gallery/PlateofNagas.jpg

You can almost feel the capasacin!

Mark

[ChefEx]

They are beautiful! I can't wait to harvest my own. Thanks, Mark!

[Tina Brooks]

Wow! Mark, they look great! AND... they are definitely orange!

T

[rainforest2]

Tina and darlochileman,

I did buy the seeds directly from Dorsetnaga.com. As I email a few times to Mrs. Joy Michaud. If you are interested into the email, please send me your email and I will forward the email to both of you. Let me the last email I got from Mrs. Joy as below. Can darlochileman respond??

" It is exactly the same variety. The plants we gave the BBC was from seed
saved in 2005, and the seed we are selling now was harvested in 2006
(grown from the 2005 seed).

I must warn you though. The reason we haven't made a very big deal about
the BBC measurement was that the 1.6 million SHU measurement seems too
high, and after talking to the scientist who did the test a level of 1.2
to 1.3 may be more correct. The Dorset Naga we grow has never been
measured over a million SHU (but it has got very close). However, we
never stress our plants (which supposedly increases the heat level of
the fruit) and after talking to the BBC it is likely the plants they had
were stressed a fair bit.

I have absolutely no doubt that Dorset Naga has the genetical make up
capable of of achieving amazingly extreme heat. The actual heat level
you get depends on the individual plant (when we test it we collect
fruit from over 100 plants) and on the conditions they are grown in.

So you have got the genuine seed. Seed of Dorset Naga bought anywhere
else is not real stuff. "

[POTAWIE]

Tina hasn't been a member here for a long time but thanks for posting the response.

[rainforest2]

Potawie,

Here is other quote from chileseeds.co.uk below.

"The protocol for sampling and preparation for testing will be agreed with Warwick HRI (a Department of the University of Warwick) and they will be testing the pods. It is hoped that these tests will provide further objective and independent evidence to substantiate the heat levels that these varieties can achieve given typical growing conditions in the UK. Currently the most rigorous testing (to meet the standards required by the Guinness Book of World Records) confirms the Bhut Jolokia as the World’s hottest chilli at 1,001,304 SHU. Testing of the Bih Jolokia, organised by Frontal Agritech, gave an even higher value of 1,041,427 SHU. Warwick HRI state that the test results quoted by BBC Gardeners World for the Dorset Naga of approximately 1.5 million SHU were generated from a non-standard test which used fresh fruit rather than dried and therefore can not be compared directly to the heat value recorded for the Bhut Jolokia, Bih Jolokia and Naga Morich. Our testing programme is being designed to ensure that each variety is grown in controlled conditions and will be sampled and prepared to a protocol agreed with Warwick HRI to ensure the credibility of comparison between the varieties."

[AlabamaJack]

[QUOTE=rainforest2;50434]...Warwick HRI state that the test results quoted by BBC Gardeners World for the Dorset Naga of approximately 1.5 million SHU were generated from a non-standard test which used fresh fruit rather than dried ...QUOTE]

So why don't they have two categories, dry and fresh....I had rather have fresh peppers any day of the week over dried peppers/flakes/powder. After all, it all starts with a fresh pepper.

[Omri]

So why don't they have two categories, dry and fresh....I had rather have fresh peppers any day of the week over dried peppers/flakes/powder. After all, it all starts with a fresh pepper.
Well one test has excess liquids, the other doesn't.
It might affect the entire process.

[AlabamaJack]

Well one test has excess liquids, the other doesn't.
It might affect the entire process.

right Omri, I didn't think...water does strange things to high falutin' tests like this. :lol: