Seedlings and Light [Archive]

AlabamaJack

12-03-2007, 08:50 AM

I promise I was not lazy when I posted this thread. I searched for "seedling light" and did not find the answer to my question.

I have read where seedlings do well under light 16 hours a day and 18 hours a day.

What about light 24 hours a day? Will that hurt them?

My seedlings are almost 4 inches tall now, have been under light 24/7 since I planted the seeds on 1 November, and are almost ready for transplant. They look very healthy.

Omri

12-03-2007, 08:55 AM

My plants don't really like it when I give them more than 15-16 hours of light per day.

POTAWIE

12-03-2007, 09:28 AM

I've never had any problems with 24 hours of light, except the extra expense but 16-18 hours is enough.

Omri

12-03-2007, 10:29 AM

I've never had any problems with 24 hours of light, except the extra expense but 16-18 hours is enough.
What kind of lights do you use?

willard3

12-03-2007, 10:39 AM

Read here for seedling lighting:

http://www.cornellcea.com/Lettuce_Handbook/lettuce_production.htm

They run lights 24hrs/day.

I run mine 16 hrs/day

POTAWIE

12-03-2007, 10:40 AM

I've used all kinds of lights in the past but now I usually just use fluorescent tubes.

AlabamaJack

12-03-2007, 08:21 PM

Well, I have decided on a little experiment. The germinator I built has 2 chambers exactly alike. I am going to split my crop of 9 seedlings and put half in each chamber. Of course then I will run lights in one chamber 24/7 and the other 16/8. Wonder what the results will be?

Omri

12-03-2007, 08:29 PM

Please let me know. :rolleyes:

AlabamaJack

12-04-2007, 08:09 PM

I transplanted to 6" pots today, bought a timer, but was too lazy to put install it. This response is really a test for showing pictures.

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/5470/seedlings120407001aob1.jpg

chilliman64

12-05-2007, 05:00 AM

my seedlings have done really well under x2 18w Grolux tubes - from seed to 12-14cm high in a total of 6-7 weeks (a heat pad was used to get them germinated)

AlabamaJack

12-05-2007, 06:21 PM

wordwiz

12-05-2007, 07:51 PM

To me, wattage is important, especially if I want to light 100 square feet. The Grolux tubes don't seem to be something available in the US, at least nothing Google turned up. A 4' tube that uses 18 watts has to be cheaper than a CFL that uses 13 watts, right? At least concerning how many plants I can stick under it?

chilliman64

12-06-2007, 06:18 AM

Chiliman:

Believe it or not, I just looked at the kind of fluorescent lights I am using. I am using a standard 4' dual shop light fixture with two Phillips F40T12/CW Plus lamps. "Said that like I knew what I was talkin' about, huh?". To me they are just standard 4' white light fluorescent light bulbs.

Just measured my seedlings and they are 10-12cm tall in 5 weeks.

Looks like we are on the same growth curve but you are using less wattage for light than I am.

luckily fluoros don't cost much to run. I've got them attached to a cheap timer and I give them 16 hours light a day and water them daily with a spray mist bottle. I am now a jiffy pellet devotee!

To me, wattage is important, especially if I want to light 100 square feet. The Grolux tubes don't seem to be something available in the US, at least nothing Google turned up. A 4' tube that uses 18 watts has to be cheaper than a CFL that uses 13 watts, right? At least concerning how many plants I can stick under it?

I don't really know if the 'grolux' part of the fluoro tubes makes any difference. basically I think they are just cool light low wattage tubes that cast a pinkish light. they may be just BS and a normal white tubes do the same job... all I know is that they have produced the goods for me so I dare not try anything else as I've got good results so far.

POTAWIE

12-06-2007, 07:36 AM

You really like jiffy pellets? I used them for many years but have found much better success using plastic cells with promix(or similar peat based mix.)

Pam

12-06-2007, 07:59 AM

You really like jiffy pellets? I used them for many years but have found much better success using plastic cells with promix(or similar peat based mix.)

I use Jiffy pellets for some things, but not for peppers. I think they do better started in a larger container. They don't like having their roots disturbed that early on. Jiffy pellets are fine for lettuce, basil, petunias, even tomatoes; but not my peppers.

Grifo

12-06-2007, 11:47 AM

Hi
I use tubes Coolwhite x2 18w
You used cover the walls aluminum?

Omri

12-06-2007, 03:28 PM

Started using some 6500K 36W lights for the young seedlings.
As recommended before, 24/7. :D

LUCKYDOG

12-10-2007, 08:00 AM

Would two 4 foot 2850 t12 lights work? As I have more plants I can buy more lights just for starters literally and figuratively. Just looking for a germination pad and lighting ideas.

AlabamaJack

12-10-2007, 11:52 AM

Would two 4 foot 2850 t12 lights work? As I have more plants I can buy more lights just for starters literally and figuratively. Just looking for a germination pad and lighting ideas.

LD:

The F40T12 CW Plus lights I am using are used only for seedling growth. They seem to be working fine for me. BUT, I am NOT a lighting expert since this is my first try to grow from seed. Does the 2850 stand for Lumens? The bulbs I am using are 4100K color temperature and 2880 lumens after burn in.

thepodpiper

12-10-2007, 10:25 PM

Started using some 6500K 36W lights for the young seedlings.
As recommended before, 24/7. :D

Omri, are there any benefits to 24/7 lighting because it seems like a lot of overkill and twice the bill? have you done any comparisons to say 12 on 12 off? I have only used the 12 on 12 off method and am a little curious.

Dale

AlabamaJack

12-11-2007, 05:21 AM

Dale:

I have been running a little experiment (see my post above on 3 Dec). I have seen no difference in 7 days running lights 24/7 and 16/8.

Omri

12-11-2007, 09:55 AM

Omri, are there any benefits to 24/7 lighting because it seems like a lot of overkill and twice the bill? have you done any comparisons to say 12 on 12 off? I have only used the 12 on 12 off method and am a little curious.

Dale
I've used MHs for the 16 hours routine, and my plant do not like anymore light.
Although the ones I've tested under the fluorescent lights, did like the 24 hours routine.
The ones under the MH still seem to grow better, but the fluorescent ones are just fine. :rolleyes:

LUCKYDOG

12-11-2007, 01:15 PM

LD:

The F40T12 CW Plus lights I am using are used only for seedling growth. They seem to be working fine for me. BUT, I am NOT a lighting expert since this is my first try to grow from seed. Does the 2850 stand for Lumens? The bulbs I am using are 4100K color temperature and 2880 lumens after burn in.

yes the 2850 is the Lumens -- color is to mimick natural light I believe. Color temp I am unsure... Homedepot had 'em these were the most lumen of the bunch --- I figured two in a 4ft overhead would be enough???

AlabamaJack

12-11-2007, 01:28 PM

yes the 2850 is the Lumens -- color is to mimick natural light I believe. Color temp I am unsure... Homedepot had 'em these were the most lumen of the bunch --- I figured two in a 4ft overhead would be enough???

I got my shop light fixtures from Home Depot and the light bulbs are Phillips I got from Home Depot also.

Pam

12-11-2007, 01:58 PM

I got my shop light fixtures from Home Depot and the light bulbs are Phillips I got from Home Depot also.

*hi fives AlabamaJack!*

Same deal, only I got some from Lowe's and some from Walmart.

AlabamaJack

12-11-2007, 03:37 PM

*hi fives AlabamaJack!*

Same deal, only I got some from Lowe's and some from Walmart.

High Fives back at 'cha Ms. Pam. Everything seems to be working as planned and on schedule. I measured my plants last night and the biggest one is 5.25 inches high at 5 weeks and 4 days. This is after transplanting to the first set of leaves. The smallest one is probably 4". They have such a gorgeous deep green color. My marbles are already starting to develop buds and I am torn whether to pull them off or just let nature take its course since these are house plants.

LUCKYDOG

12-12-2007, 11:17 AM

Sounds like the same thing I am looking at AJ + Pam

Omri

12-12-2007, 04:01 PM

You can't say I'm wasting any resources. :rolleyes:
Used a desk lamp I got with a 25W compact fluorescent, old mini-fluorescent tubes with an extended power line, and just so I could feel like a real a-hole, I hanged a tray below the full sized fluorescent lights I have on the ceiling. :lol:
I took off the tubes and put some weights on the tray to see if it's stable. :lol:

bentalphanerd

12-12-2007, 04:25 PM

AlabamaJack

12-12-2007, 04:27 PM

Agree with Bent.........Pics?

Omri

12-12-2007, 04:55 PM

Sounds like a real professional setup there Omri - you have a pic of that?

Agree with Bent.........Pics?
First of all it doesn't look professional at all, it's more like something the professor from 'Gilligan's Island' made. :lol:
Now about the pics.
As I said before, It's the main light in the room, and I took the tubes off for testing its stability, so no pics until morning time (It's midnight now). :shocked:;)

AlabamaJack

12-12-2007, 06:39 PM

In the mean time, Marble Pepper Seedlings @ 6 weeks to the day.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9117/tomatospeppers121207004sc2.jpg

wordwiz

12-12-2007, 07:46 PM

Is this from the day of sowing the seed or the day they sprouted? If it is the former, I'm going to be really, really jealous.

AlabamaJack

12-13-2007, 01:43 AM

Is this from the day of sowing the seed or the day they sprouted? If it is the former, I'm going to be really, really jealous.

I put the seeds in the starter soil Thursday, 1 November about 5PM and followed all the advice on starting seeds from the hot pepper website. I kept them at constant 86 F until they were about an inch high and they have had light 24/7 and a constant 80 F since. I suppose the stuff I used just happened to be what the marbles and little elves wanted. Beginners luck for my first try starting from seed. If you would like, I will tell you exactly what I have used. I have kept a daily log since they went planted.

Omri

12-13-2007, 10:18 AM

I don't feel so good today, so I haven't finished it, yet.

Here's a picture:
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/7161/weirdsetupbs1.jpg

I used those really tall trays/half boxes I get with the cups I order, because they're strong and light.

I'm gonna cover it with some nylon so it will look better, get those tubes back, pad it with aluminum foil (it helps a lot) and add two more to the right.

bentalphanerd

12-13-2007, 04:13 PM

First of all it doesn't look professional at all, it's more like something the professor from 'Gilligan's Island' made. :lol:

I don't see any vines or coconuts :lol:

I would be a little worried about the weight Omri. How is the fluro holder attached to the ceiling & whats the ceiling made of?

It does look great though - The Omri Goldberg pepper grower :cool:

Omri

12-13-2007, 05:09 PM

I don't see any vines or coconuts :lol:

I would be a little worried about the weight Omri. How is the fluro holder attached to the ceiling & whats the ceiling made of?

It does look great though - The Omri Goldberg pepper grower :cool:
This room was made against a direct hit of a missile, I think it should hold a few seedlings. :lol:
BTW my name is NOT 'Goldberg', it's 'Shuster'. ;)

wordwiz

12-13-2007, 05:10 PM

I put the seeds in the starter soil Thursday, 1 November about 5PM and followed all the advice on starting seeds from the hot pepper website. I kept them at constant 86 F until they were about an inch high and they have had light 24/7 and a constant 80 F since. I suppose the stuff I used just happened to be what the marbles and little elves wanted. Beginners luck for my first try starting from seed. If you would like, I will tell you exactly what I have used. I have kept a daily log since they went planted.

AJ,

Yeah, send me the nitty-gritty details. I can match the heating, at least until they get about six inches tall, then I might need to build a larger container. Plus, I probably will run the lights only 16-18 hours a day, as I can't get the plants outside until the middle of May and I don't want to worry about knocking blooms off carrying them down steps and across the yard.

I stopped in at a client's yesterday (a Garden Center). He sold me a bag of seeding soil, $10 for 40 pounds, said it was the same thing they use and they raise hundreds of plants a year. That's where my wife got the habs, jalas, and Hungarian peppers this year. He had some better stuff but at $10/lb. and the advice that it really isn't much better, I opted for the cheaper stuff. They told me they start the seeds in about a half-inch of this stuff then move them up to a small seed tray. Of course, they have eight hours a day to donate to this stuff. They also don't fertilize the seedlings. Personally, I would love to find a product we use to call Agrinite. Really nasty smelling - almost like cow manure, that was applied directly to the plants. It was great to give the plants a boost once they got about three-four inches tall. Plus, it didn't need washed off.

Mike

By Monday, I should have most of the seeds I ordered and be ready to try your advice!

bentalphanerd

12-13-2007, 05:39 PM

This room was made against a direct hit of a missile, I think it should hold a few seedlings. :lol:
BTW my name is NOT 'Goldberg', it's 'Shuster'. ;)

What about the little 1/4" screws holding the light fitting to the ceiling?

It reminds me of Rube Goldberg cartoons LINK (http://www.rube-goldberg.com/):cool:

Omri

12-13-2007, 05:44 PM

What about the little 1/4" screws holding the light fitting to the ceiling?

It reminds me of Rube Goldberg cartoons LINK (http://www.rube-goldberg.com/):cool:
I tested the setup over night with some weights (real heavy ones), and it kept it stable without any trouble.

VERY LATE EDIT:
Here's the setup in use.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7025/uplightka7.jpg

I'll deal with the cosmetics later.

AlabamaJack

12-13-2007, 07:40 PM

AJ,

Yeah, send me the nitty-gritty details.
By Monday, I should have most of the seeds I ordered and be ready to try your advice!

OK. Here goes.
Seed Starting Soil: Hoffman Seed Starter (5.95 USD for 10 Dry Quarts)

Containers: 9 ounce clear plastic dixie cups with three 1/4 inch holes randomly drilled in the bottom

Seeds: Little Elf, Marbles, and Largo Purple (purples never germinated) from Tomato Growers Supply Company in Fort Myers, Florida.

Water: Used only distilled water for all watering and fertilize mixing

Filled cups with seed starter soil, tapped cup to level the soil, used tweezers to handle seeds and "push" them about 1/4 inch deep, then used tip of tweezers to cover them. Watered in with mister of distilled water. Misted several times to keep moist several times through the night (planted at 1800 hrs).

The seed germinator I built was at a constant 86F when I put them in. I am using a remote bulb thermostat set on 3 degrees variance to keep the temperature in the germinator at 86F.

Misted the cups every two hours the next day to keep soil moist but not soaking. Started watering the third day and watered twice daily (morning and night) for the next month.

8 November 1st seed sprouted. 10 seeds sprouted by 13 November. All Marbles and Little Elf's. No Largo Purple have sprouted to this day. Lost one marble due to seed shell staying on seedling.

Fertilized first time on 25 November using Botanicare Pro, Pure Blend (Grow) 3-1.5-4 (1/2 oz to 1 gallon water). Liberally watered with this every 7 days since 25 November.

Transplanted 9 seedlings into 6" pots 4 December. Made just enough potting soil for 9 6" containers for transplant using miracle grow potting mix (I know you guys hate it) and mixed in 1/4 cup Jim Johnson, Seedman, Dry Formula Tomato/Pepper Plant Food. Carefully took seedlings out of 9 ounce cups (some roots were already growing out the holes in the bottom) and placed them in the 6 inch pots and added potting mix until the first set of leaves were almost covered. Watered in.

Have been watering once a day since transplant.

Not much else to tell I can think of.

AlabamaJack

12-13-2007, 07:43 PM

Dang Omri.........that is going to work

bentalphanerd

12-13-2007, 07:51 PM

Here's the setup in use.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7025/uplightka7.jpg

I'll deal with the cosmetics later.

:clap::clap: great idea Omri

Omri

12-13-2007, 08:00 PM

Thanks, it means a lot. :rolleyes:
BTW, see that glow around the lights? they're not the source, the light goes only down.
That's actually the aluminum foil working. :cool:

wordwiz

12-13-2007, 08:45 PM

AJ,

Not much stuff that I can see missing. The distilled water and good soil may be what I'm lacking. I'm not sure exactly what mix I got to sow the out the seeds in, but Don did say to use a screen (like one that covers a window) to clean out the bigger pieces.

I use a waterbed heater, which I presume is going to be correct to +/- a degree or so. However, as far as misting every couple of hours, I have to draw the line there. I'm going to go to bed and sleep for a few hours in a row each night (at least seven, if I can).

Another thing I may be doing wrong is keeping the soil too damp. It reads like your soil is moist, but not wet. I'm use to dealing with plants in the ground - turn the sprinkler on and let it run until the top 1/4 inch is muddy. Geez, when I was younger, we would water tobacco beds using a pump that would move 5,000 gallons of water an hour. We would drive along at about 2 mph and cover everything. I can see me trying to use that in a 2x3 ft. box!

I'm impressed that roots were growing out the bottom - that seems to make a big difference when it comes time to move them. If the plant is almost rootbound, IME it doesn't go through any shock being moved. This spring, planting tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, etc., they didn't wilt, they kept on growing.

BTW, we are supposed to have a massive snowstorm, followed by rain. I may just collect that water and use it (after warming it up to room temperature) rather than distilled water.

I'll try to keep a log of what I do. I may even try some experiments such as using dirt rather than starting mix.

thepodpiper

12-13-2007, 10:10 PM

wordwiz, why would you have to mist them so often? Your waterbed heater may be hotter than you think if they are drying out that quick. My two waterbed heaters were not accurate at all, on the lowest setting they were well over 100 degrees so I put them on a remote thermostat. Do you have a thermometer on the top of the soil?

Dale

wordwiz

12-13-2007, 10:15 PM

Dale,

The reference to misting every couple of hours was because AJ said that it what he did. I would tend to mist them once a day, or lightly mist them twice.

I still sleep on a waterbed and the temps don't seem to vary. I do need to get a thermometer and stick it in the box to see what it reads, though.

Mike

AlabamaJack

12-14-2007, 07:17 AM

Dale/Mike,

Don't laugh but I take a diuretic for blood pressure and have to get up 2 or 3 times a night so I check my seedlings while I am up. Might as well take advantage of the situation.

willard3

12-14-2007, 11:48 AM

I still sleep on a waterbed and the temps don't seem to vary. I do need to get a thermometer and stick it in the box to see what it reads, though.Mike

The waterbed has a lot more thermal mass than your germinator and the heater could be running at 180F to get water temp up in a reasonable time.

Measure temps carefully or you know nothing.....

ABurningMouth

12-15-2007, 12:35 PM

I would just put the plants on the waterbed with me. That way all you have to do is roll over (carefully if it's not waveless) and mist them anytime you wake. The temps would be within the right parameters.
Last year I just kept lights (cfls) on them during the day for heat from above, (like the sun) and they did just fine.

AlabamaJack

12-19-2007, 05:32 AM

I am tickled right now. It ia 4:30 am and I just checked my seedlings. They will be 7 weeks old tomorrow and I have my first flower.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2441/121907firstmarblesfloweik8.jpg

:)

LUCKYDOG

12-19-2007, 08:17 AM

Great job AJ -- it looks very healthy

wordwiz

12-19-2007, 05:32 PM

Impressive. I have a couple of plants from seeds that were sowed seven months ago that I'm waiting for flowers. Okay, they had some when I dug them up just before the first freeze but they have not responded as well as I would have hoped. The aphids/mites have not helped and I'm convinced that city water is not the best to use, though it worked great in the outdoor garden this summer.

Omri

12-19-2007, 05:45 PM

Just be glad they're alive, so there's still hope. :)

wordwiz

12-19-2007, 10:17 PM

Omri,

I can't complain about trying to save plants. The hab that was loaded with green pods ended up giving a hair over 100 ripe peppers, about 1/2 of them as good a size if they had stayed in the garden for another month (in 90 degree heat).

No doubt, it is my lack of experience. I've never, ever raised anything besides some spider plants inside, so this is a learning experience. But as Grandpa use to say, I'm not going to learn any younger.

Mike

PcolaHot

12-20-2007, 03:44 AM

Nice job AJ. And a nice looking plant. Guess I need to get it in gear and start planting some seeds soon. Seem to be behind the eight compared to alot of ya'll.

AlabamaJack

12-20-2007, 05:52 AM

PcolaHot

12-20-2007, 12:47 PM

Pcola...the seeds I started are going to be house plants and are just a "test" case to see if the germinator I built and all the "stuff" I used works for germination and seedling growth. I will not start germinating seeds for outside until the middle/end of January. If you start now and it takes 8 weeks to get the seedlings ready, you are talking transplanting seedlings the middle to end of February. That would be a little too soon for Pensacola since the last frost date is the middle to end of March. And, you have to remember, some of the members here are Aussies where it is just now getting to be summer.

Ok I'm understandiing whats going on. Didn't dawn on me that some ya'll would be growing plants for the inside of the house. That would make sense thou. I guess I just need to be patience and just start getting prepared and prepped until it is time to start planting seeds. And keep reading the posts on this forum to get all kinds of great info that will come in handy.:lol:

Omri

12-20-2007, 12:52 PM

Ok I'm understandiing whats going on. Didn't dawn on me that some ya'll would be growing plants for the inside of the house. That would make sense thou. I guess I just need to be patience and just start getting prepared and prepped until it is time to start planting seeds. And keep reading the posts on this forum to get all kinds of great info that will come in handy.:lol:
All my plants are indoors, I have an entire room for germination. :lol:

wordwiz

12-20-2007, 08:39 PM

AJ,

I pretty much followed your recipe. Okay, I sort of followed. I probably used a different potting soil - it was recommended by a garden store who hs great luck with it. And instead of using clear Dixie cups, I used white styrofoam. I can't see that making much difference, as the plants will stay in their germinator (an old double-lined toy box with a waterbed mattress heater set to 85 degrees, covered with glass). I used a tweezers to put the seeds in the PS, though instead of pushing them down, I covered them with another 1/4 of PS. This leaves about three inches of stuff for them to grow into.

Watered,using a sprayer so as not to disturb the soil but yet wet it well. No lights yet, as the seeds are "under cover," so to speak.

Sowed 38 types. I know it is early, but with the luck I have had, this is pretty much a test. Except for one variety, I have at least 15 seeds of each one left. If this experiment works, I can always use up another seed, but I have the room inside to handle that many 3-gallon containers. I have to have ripe (ready to pick and eat) peppers by August 1, as I am hoping to have display at the County Fair and pass out samples.

As an aside, we had our Christmas Party last night, and I had a few Habs and Jalapenos that were ready for eating. This one guy grabbed two of the Habs and a Jala. I tried to tell him the habs were hot but being the macho man he thinks he is, he didn't care. I asked him later on if he ate the peppers - he said he took a bite of the hab and it would not have been hot had he not also put some BBQ sauce (Bull's Eye) on a chicken wing and that made the hab too hot to eat!

Okay and whatever.

Merry Christmas!

Mike

AlabamaJack

12-21-2007, 01:45 AM

AJ,

I pretty much followed your recipe...

I asked him later on if he ate the peppers - he said he took a bite of the hab and it would not have been hot had he not also put some BBQ sauce (Bull's Eye) on a chicken wing and that made the hab too hot to eat!

Okay and whatever.

Merry Christmas!

Mike

I hope this is not a case of the blind leading the blind....:lol:

Next years christmas party you need to feed him a Naga and see if he uses bulls eye with that......:mouthonfire:

Merry Christmas to you and yours...and happy new year...