Blair's POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS

[chuk hell]

http://ironq.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/sideeffct.gif

I'm new to Blair's sauces so I was pretty excited when the package from sweatnspice arrived at my door last week containing the 4-pack of Blair's extreme death sauces.

The first one I decided to try was this "Possible Side Effects" stuff. It's hot alright. Almost hot enough to make me cry...or at least hop up and down a little. But this stuff tastes god-awful. I don't know if I got an old bottle or what but I do not dig the taste of this stuff AT ALL.

It's got some oddball ingredients like orange juice, pumpkin seeds and potatoes. Potatoes? Whatever. Pumpkin seeds usually neutrualize some of the heat so how they got this up to a quarter million Scoville units without extract is a mystery to me. Especially with potatoes in it. Poatatoes? WTF?

I really cannot understate how much I dislike the taste of this stuff. It's almost a chemical taste...but no extract, right? The only other Blair's I've tried, so far ( After Death, Sudden Death and MEGA Death are waiting in the wings) is the Original Death, and I dig it seriously. Nice fresh hab and garlic taste. So hopefully the others will taste better. I've read so many good reviews of Blair's stuff that I was a little taken aback by how bad this is. Maybe I'm just spoiling my taste buds with the excellent Marie Sharp's I've been consuming in mass quanities...or maybe I'm just too picky. This is named after a comedy troupe so maybe the joke is on me.

In the meantime I will just mix this in with milder sauces and enjoy the killer heat....and try to ignore the taste.

[staffing]

http://ironq.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/sideeffct.gif

I'm new to Blair's sauces so I was pretty excited when the package from sweatnspice arrived at my door last week containing the 4-pack of Blair's extreme death sauces.

The first one I decided to try was this "Possible Side Effects" stuff. It's hot alright. Almost hot enough to make me cry...or at least hop up and down a little. But this stuff tastes god-awful. I don't know if I got an old bottle or what but I do not dig the taste of this stuff AT ALL.

It's got some oddball ingredients like orange juice, pumpkin seeds and potatoes. Potatoes? Whatever. Pumpkin seeds usually neutrualize some of the heat so how they got this up to a quarter million Scoville units without extract is a mystery to me. Especially with potatoes in it. Poatatoes? WTF?

I really cannot understate how much I dislike the taste of this stuff. It's almost a chemical taste...but no extract, right? The only other Blair's I've tried, so far ( After Death, Sudden Death and MEGA Death are waiting in the wings) is the Original Death, and I dig it seriously. Nice fresh hab and garlic taste. So hopefully the others will taste better. I've read so many good reviews of Blair's stuff that I was a little taken aback by how bad this is. Maybe I'm just spoiling my taste buds with the excellent Marie Sharp's I've been consuming in mass quanities...or maybe I'm just too picky. This is named after a comedy troupe so maybe the joke is on me.

In the meantime I will just mix this in with milder sauces and enjoy the killer heat....and try to ignore the taste.

I have a bottle on my shelf to look at. I haven't tried it yet. Sounds to me like I don't want to. Without extract? I'll have to look at my bottle, but I thought that just about all of Blair's sauces (the hottest ones anyway) were extract sauces. I know that After Death is (by the way, After Death is pretty good). I was under the impression the Mega Death and Possible Side Effects were indeed extract sauces. I'll check my bottles tomorrow. Won't have time today...have a big test in Org. Chem.

Thanks for the heads-up. Most extract sauces are not that tasty....though a few are.

[kato]

Never tried this sauce before but like Chuck not a big fan of extract sauces However I do like the Original Death & After Death even though it is an extract sauce it is pretty good.
Don't care much for Dave's Insanity sauces or Vicious Viper

I like Defcon extract sauces flavor with heat,
As Staff said Endorphin Rush is good also flavor and heat
So I can't say I don't like any extract sauces

Mick
Kato's

[chuk hell]

from:

http://www.firebreath.com/s.nl/c.ACCT89406/sc.2/category.9/it.A/id.140/.f




Blair's Possible Side Effects Hot Sauce

Hot sauce brands come and go, and most of the really hot ones use habanero extract to acheive their stupifying heat. For that reason most true "Chile Heads" don't consider an extract based product to be a real sauce. Their true catagory is "food additive."

Here we have a true sauce. Blair's Possible Side Effects was originally created for the comedy group "Possible Side Effects," and has been tested at 230,000 Scovile Units (SU), and since it uses no extracts, it just might be the hottest true hot sauce ever made. Comes with skull key chain.

The bottle does list "natural pepper flavoring ( contains soybean oil)" . Is that a sneaky way of saying "extract"?


I don't have anything against extract sauces per se I'm just against sauces that taste like ass! I have a bottle of DAVE"S TOTAL INSAINITY SAUCE in the fridge right now and it tastes much better than PSE. Garlicky, as the bottle says.

I'm hoping this is just the "black sheep" of Blair's familiy because the Original DEATH SAUCE is excellent...I opened it last night and consumed nearly 1/3 of the bottle!

[Tina Brooks]

from:

http://www.firebreath.com/s.nl/c.ACCT89406/sc.2/category.9/it.A/id.140/.f




Blair's Possible Side Effects Hot Sauce

Hot sauce brands come and go, and most of the really hot ones use habanero extract to acheive their stupifying heat. For that reason most true "Chile Heads" don't consider an extract based product to be a real sauce. Their true catagory is "food additive."

Here we have a true sauce. Blair's Possible Side Effects was originally created for the comedy group "Possible Side Effects," and has been tested at 230,000 Scovile Units (SU), and since it uses no extracts, it just might be the hottest true hot sauce ever made. Comes with skull key chain.

The bottle does list "natural pepper flavoring ( contains soybean oil)" . Is that a sneaky way of saying "extract"?


I don't have anything against extract sauces per se I'm just against sauces that taste like ass! I have a bottle of DAVE"S TOTAL INSAINITY SAUCE in the fridge right now and it tastes much better than PSE. Garlicky, as the bottle says.

I'm hoping this is just the "black sheep" of Blair's familiy because the Original DEATH SAUCE is excellent...I opened it last night and consumed nearly 1/3 of the bottle!

Fwiw, Peppermaster's Hurricane (Goat Pepper) Mash is, to my knowledge the hottest TRULY all-natural sauce available. There is nothing in it to lower the heat level.

That said, saying we use "natural pepper flavoring" is most definitely a sneaky way of saying "we use oleoresin".

That said, I put in a call to a couple of flavouring companies and they all said "oleoresin", "chemically extracted natural flavours".

I also just asked a company that specializes in organic flavourings to find out if it's possible to have a truly "natural pepper flavoring" that can concentrate the heat and the flavour like oleoresins do and I'll let you know what they say. But at this point, I'm thinking that the only truly natural pepper in sauces is going to list the actual peppers.

AND WE made the mistake of calling it an "Extract".

Fwiw, I don't know why they have the nerve to call it anything other than "oleoresin" unless it's to scam people into believing that they haven't used it.

Hmmm, I feel another rant coming on. You guys are going to keep me really busy with my blog!!

T

[DEFCON Creator]

Well, I think that 99% of the "extract" sauces on the market use a ketone process to extract the capsaicin. They also own the lab machine to get the ketones back out after the extraction process (if they didn't, their customer list would shrink drastically due to poison ingestion). Anyway, we call our #1 and ZERO sauces extract sauces, but our extracts are extracted using absolutely no chemicals. Would that make our stuff non-extract based? Personally I don't think so, as we used our procces specifically to 'extract' the capsaicin. Semantics? Perhaps, but I like the ring 'extract sauce'. Tina, your stuff is on its' way. Kato and Staff, have you tried the ZERO yet?

[Tina Brooks]

Well, I think that 99% of the "extract" sauces on the market use a ketone process to extract the capsaicin. They also own the lab machine to get the ketones back out after the extraction process (if they didn't, their customer list would shrink drastically due to poison ingestion). Anyway, we call our #1 and ZERO sauces extract sauces, but our extracts are extracted using absolutely no chemicals. Would that make our stuff non-extract based? Personally I don't think so, as we used our procces specifically to 'extract' the capsaicin. Semantics? Perhaps, but I like the ring 'extract sauce'. Tina, your stuff is on its' way. Kato and Staff, have you tried the ZERO yet?

From what I understand, yes, ketone is the extraction "solvent" of choice. And my personal opinion is that it tastes rather much like aspartame, iow, icky.

That said, if it's oleoresin, it's oleoresin and I think by now that most people when they see "extract", they know it's an oleoresin, which is why we had to change the word "extract" from our Chili Chocolate Passion, because it really is fresh habanero in our sauce and not oleoresin.

And as snobbish as that may sound, I don't think there is anything wrong with using oleoresin. As long as people know that's what you're using, such as you guys at Defcon do, John, that is. The idea of calling oleoresin "fresh pepper flavoring", is just plain misinformation, if you ask me.

[chuk hell]

Tina,

Can you explain the difference between oleoresin and "ketone" extract.

A link would be fine. Thanks.

[Tina Brooks]

Tina,

Can you explain the difference between oleoresin and "ketone" extract.

A link would be fine. Thanks.

A link? That will be tricky, but I'll see what I can find.

In the meantime, oleoresin essentially, (in food usage), essentially means the natural spice or flavoring materials, of a plant, extracted using a solvent.

Note that any oleoresin will contain the essential oil of the plant it came from and other important non-volatile components which characterize the flavour, color etc.

In the case of the hot peppers, it is the flavour of the pepper. I simply find the idea that it is "natural" to be questionable and so do a lot of people who are buying the true all-natural sauces.

Ketones just happen to be the "solvent" of choice, more often than not.

Ketones are just one of the different solvents that get used. In my blog, I linked to a university course study where the students were being instructed to use methyl cyanide as their solvent. John (Defcon) uses pure grain alcohol as his solvent.

chew on that for a bit, I'm going to do some "solvent" research and I'll be back.

T.

[Tina Brooks]

Sometimes I amaze even myself with the speed with which I can find what I want on the net.

Take it with a grain of salt, it is referring to the cosmetics industry not food.

"EXTEN: Volume extraction and encapsulation of substances used as flavour chemicals, pharmaceutical raw substances, biochemicals and enzymatic systems (http://www.biomatnet.org/secure/Fair/R2003.htm)

Many of the compounds found in plants have useful applications in the pharmaceutical, food processing and various other industries. They can be employed for aesthetic or physical purposes, to improve a product's performance. As useful biomolecules are usually only present in trace amounts in organic residues, they require careful extraction and downstream processing to render them useful as an active ingredient.

The classical method of extraction involves leaching or percolation from botanical residues, utilising a solvent system compatible with the lipophilic/hydrophilic characteristics of the extract sought. Evaporation of the solvent yields the raw extract, but even if the process takes place under conditions of high vacuum, a residual amount of solvent will always be present within the extract. Concentrations of residual solvent as low as 50 ppm may cause problems for downstream production processes or eventual and use. Many organic solvents have particularly detrimental properties (e.g acetone, dichloromethane, dichloroethane, benzene, hexane etc.) regarding human health and the integrity of various industrial processes."

I thought that was a really useful description of getting an oleoresin and it is the same way that capsaicin is extracted from the pepper.

Let me see what I can find more specifically on food grade ketones.

T

[DEFCON Creator]

Tina,
As far as I know, there are NO happy ketones, which are viable for human consumption. The lovely acetone/benzene/hexane/etc. family are the major players in this happy little family. The reason they are used is the fact that the capsaicin is soluable in them, and the sugar is not. It's the quicky method of large production-quantity extraction of capsaicin, meanwhile, leaving everything (virtually) else behind. The lipophilic solution coodinates the use of fats, oils, and even triglycerides and sterols to produce the said effect, and the hydrophilic simply uses water. The hydrophilic method is, of course, the most simple. The problem with it, even alcohol, is that you reach a 'glass ceiling' as to the pureness of the said extract, as sugar has an almost immediate atomic bond with capsaicin. Makes sense, considering the sugar percentage in nearly all peppers (including the hot ones) is nearly 80%. That's when the 'ancient Chinese secrets' (Calgon take me away) come into play. Our method not only uses high grade alcohol, but high pressure and CO2 in the process, and a step I won't mention (NO, no chemicals). Ketones are deadly, but if you have a few 10's of thousands of dollars to throw around for lab equipment, you can extract them out, so your customers won't be spitting up their organs before bedtime. Strangely enough (most producers will know this), mass production capsaicin extracts mainly come from just a few companies. It's kind of like private label companies that will slap your label on the same sauce that they sell others. We don't want to go down that road, so we do it our way, which tends to taste a lot better (as extracts go) than the ketone extracts do, albeit the time involved is a lot more. Well, enough said, perhaps I have been informative for some...

[Tina Brooks]

Tina,
As far as I know, there are NO happy ketones, which are viable for human consumption. The lovely acetone/benzene/hexane/etc. family are the major players in this happy little family. The reason they are used is the fact that the capsaicin is soluable in them, and the sugar is not. It's the quicky method of large production-quantity extraction of capsaicin, meanwhile, leaving everything (virtually) else behind. The lipophilic solution coodinates the use of fats, oils, and even triglycerides and sterols to produce the said effect, and the hydrophilic simply uses water. The hydrophilic method is, of course, the most simple. The problem with it, even alcohol, is that you reach a 'glass ceiling' as to the pureness of the said extract, as sugar has an almost immediate atomic bond with capsaicin. Makes sense, considering the sugar percentage in nearly all peppers (including the hot ones) is nearly 80%. That's when the 'ancient Chinese secrets' (Calgon take me away) come into play. Our method not only uses high grade alcohol, but high pressure and CO2 in the process, and a step I won't mention (NO, no chemicals). Ketones are deadly, but if you have a few 10's of thousands of dollars to throw around for lab equipment, you can extract them out, so your customers won't be spitting up their organs before bedtime. Strangely enough (most producers will know this), mass production capsaicin extracts mainly come from just a few companies. It's kind of like private label companies that will slap your label on the same sauce that they sell others. We don't want to go down that road, so we do it our way, which tends to taste a lot better (as extracts go) than the ketone extracts do, albeit the time involved is a lot more. Well, enough said, perhaps I have been informative for some...

You're a chemisty major, aintcha???

lol, ya mean like Dave and Melinda???

I said last week to someone that with as much as I know about peppers, I still have a ton to learn... This is what I was talking about! S'ok, I love doing this sort of thing.

Here's what I learned in the little time I've had to putter about the net... And short of getting a degree in chemisty, this is as close as I get to the reality of the concept of ketones and capsaicin extract.

I can't find anything on the net that says anything about food grade ketones. And as you say, John, there's no such thing, but anyway, I have to admit that what I have been calling "ketones" are more properly called solvents, and I'll probably learn a little more about it as the chemists I called get back to me, but in the meantime, when I say "ketone", for lack of better knowledge of chemistry, I really mean "solvent"

Ketone extracts to me, are, I suppose, either a misnomer or an outright error on my part; more likely the latter. So, you must forgive me, but anyone who has ever used nail polish remover or worked in a chem lab that uses Ketone solvents might have an idea what I'm referring to. If it smells like nail polish remover, it's a solvent, and in my pointy little head, it's a ketone. And since as you say, they're really using Acetone, another key ingredient in nail polish remover... Sigh.

So... moving forward, I shall refrain from using the word "ketone" and say "solvent" Although I might just say "nail polish remover" in future. haha

So, here you go... here's what I found... From the US Government (http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=251992131408+5+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve) and they oughta know...

"(3) The term natural flavor or natural flavoring means the essential oil, oleoresin, essence or extractive, protein hydrolysate, distillate, or any product of roasting, heating or enzymolysis, which contains the flavoring constituents derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf
or similar plant material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof, whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional. Natural flavors include the natural
essence or extractives obtained from plants listed in Sec. Sec. 182.10, 182.20, 182.40, and 182.50 and part 184 of this chapter, and the substances listed in Sec. 172.510 of this chapter."

This is a study (http://www.owr.ehnr.state.nc.us/ref/10/09765.pdf) on source reduction of chlorinated solvents and it refers to solvents used in spice oleoresins.

On page 10, it says that of five chlorinated solvents, only Methelyne Chloride (METH) is used in spice oleoresin extraction. It also states that in processes some of the chemical is left behind.

The section of the study that refers to the spice oleoresins starts at the bottom of page 22 and on page 24, it describes the two process for extracting oleoresins...

"In the continuous process, raw spice is pulverized until the required particle size distribution is reached, and then percolated with a volatile solvent like METH. The solvent extracts the active ingredients which impart aroma and taste to the spice. The solution is then boiled and vacuum distilled to remove all but small quantities of the solvent. The resulting product is called oleoresin.

In the batch process, the spice is subjected to steam under pressure, which volatizes the aromatic principals. The spice is then dried and percolated with solvent to remove the flavor principals. Afterwards the essential oils and flavors are combined and form oleoresins."

So, I stand corrected, ketones is the wrong word... they really are using solvents.

Hey, you know what else I learned? METH is cancer causing... some fun huh kids???

Seriously though, given the choice between methylene chloride and ketones, I ask you... which one do YOU want to put in YOUR mouth???

I know my answer... Mega YUCK! Gimme fresh habaneros any day!

T

[DEFCON Creator]

Tina, Tina, Tina...
Like I said, not all extracts have that nasty little furniture stripper taste, try the little blue bottle I sent you. Just a little...

As for your explanations, well done, but I do so hate reading scientific terminologies, they give me a headache. Worse than after our second distillation and pressure reduction of the lovely oleoresins...ahem, I mean extracts. :wink:

[Tina Brooks]

Tina, Tina, Tina...
Like I said, not all extracts have that nasty little furniture stripper taste, try the little blue bottle I sent you. Just a little...

As for your explanations, well done, but I do so hate reading scientific terminologies, they give me a headache. Worse than after our second distillation and pressure reduction of the lovely oleoresins...ahem, I mean extracts. :wink:

John, John, John, I can't talk politics, I can't use scientific terminology, gimme a break man, I'm DYING here!!!

;)

[DEFCON Creator]

Politics...Definitely a no no.

Scientific terminologies, well, I just don't want to put other readers to sleep. Believe it or not, we're currently working on a NEGATIVE 1 'extract' (once again, semantics), our method incorporating the shock value of CO2 seems to be working. For giggles, I think the next show we do, I'm going to go out and get a bunch of lab beakers and tubing and rig up a chemistry rollercoaster, complete with all different color liquids and dry ice, for fun, and make up a DEFCON lab coat, complete with stitched logo. Maybe I can serve the wings out of a makeshift cryogenic unit. Ah yes, the wonderful world of marketing.

[Tina Brooks]

Politics...Definitely a no no.

Scientific terminologies, well, I just don't want to put other readers to sleep. Believe it or not, we're currently working on a NEGATIVE 1 'extract' (once again, semantics), our method incorporating the shock value of CO2 seems to be working. For giggles, I think the next show we do, I'm going to go out and get a bunch of lab beakers and tubing and rig up a chemistry rollercoaster, complete with all different color liquids and dry ice, for fun, and make up a DEFCON lab coat, complete with stitched logo. Maybe I can serve the wings out of a makeshift cryogenic unit. Ah yes, the wonderful world of marketing.

Hmmm, putting folks to sleep, now I suppose that is a consideration, although, some of us (ok, I) find such things interesting. Ah well, never one to dumb my conversation down, I shall be more conscientious.

As for the lab coat... What a great idea! Play up the mad chemist idea. Whereas I have no idea what a cryogenic unit is, I saw a dairy farmer friend of mine's "bull" and if that's what you mean, that would be very cool. You can use tongue depressors or litmus sticks for sampling. lol

[DEFCON Creator]

That's the wonderful thing about the chilihead market. It's the only market where the clientele all have elevated endorphin levels, which puts them into a perpetual state of giddiness. That's one reason I have so much fun doing the shows we do, everyone is in a good mood...A bit masochistic from loving the burn, but it's all good. The mad chemist is an idea I've been throwing around for a while. With the bottles we use, which are pharmaceutical bottles, it kind of meshes very well.

As for being a major in chemistry, I prefer the term tinkerer. With the extraction methods we are experimenting with, I alomst feel as if I'm entering Nature's domain. :twisted:

[Tina Brooks]

That's the wonderful thing about the chilihead market. It's the only market where the clientele all have elevated endorphin levels, which puts them into a perpetual state of giddiness. That's one reason I have so much fun doing the shows we do, everyone is in a good mood...A bit masochistic from loving the burn, but it's all good. The mad chemist is an idea I've been throwing around for a while. With the bottles we use, which are pharmaceutical bottles, it kind of meshes very well.

As for being a major in chemistry, I prefer the term tinkerer. With the extraction methods we are experimenting with, I alomst feel as if I'm entering Nature's domain. :twisted:

I tink you're tinkering with me. lol

It's funny, I watch the Peppermaster in the kitchen and he's sometimes like a mad scientist, a drib of this, a drib of that, but the most scientific looking contraption he's got is the pulley system that moves across the kitchen. Great for moving really heavy objects about, but not very science labbish.

I see a cool opportunity for you to market using the mad scientist idea, (let me know if you need an illustrator, I'll hook you up with one of my guys). It would make for great marketing pieces.

T

[staffing]

Tina,
As far as I know, there are NO happy ketones, which are viable for human consumption. The lovely acetone/benzene/hexane/etc. family are the major players in this happy little family. The reason they are used is the fact that the capsaicin is soluable in them, and the sugar is not. It's the quicky method of large production-quantity extraction of capsaicin, meanwhile, leaving everything (virtually) else behind. The lipophilic solution coodinates the use of fats, oils, and even triglycerides and sterols to produce the said effect, and the hydrophilic simply uses water. The hydrophilic method is, of course, the most simple. The problem with it, even alcohol, is that you reach a 'glass ceiling' as to the pureness of the said extract, as sugar has an almost immediate atomic bond with capsaicin. Makes sense, considering the sugar percentage in nearly all peppers (including the hot ones) is nearly 80%. That's when the 'ancient Chinese secrets' (Calgon take me away) come into play. Our method not only uses high grade alcohol, but high pressure and CO2 in the process, and a step I won't mention (NO, no chemicals). Ketones are deadly, but if you have a few 10's of thousands of dollars to throw around for lab equipment, you can extract them out, so your customers won't be spitting up their organs before bedtime. Strangely enough (most producers will know this), mass production capsaicin extracts mainly come from just a few companies. It's kind of like private label companies that will slap your label on the same sauce that they sell others. We don't want to go down that road, so we do it our way, which tends to taste a lot better (as extracts go) than the ketone extracts do, albeit the time involved is a lot more. Well, enough said, perhaps I have been informative for some...

You're a chemisty major, aintcha???

lol, ya mean like Dave and Melinda???

I said last week to someone that with as much as I know about peppers, I still have a ton to learn... This is what I was talking about! S'ok, I love doing this sort of thing.

Here's what I learned in the little time I've had to putter about the net... And short of getting a degree in chemisty, this is as close as I get to the reality of the concept of ketones and capsaicin extract.

I can't find anything on the net that says anything about food grade ketones. And as you say, John, there's no such thing, but anyway, I have to admit that what I have been calling "ketones" are more properly called solvents, and I'll probably learn a little more about it as the chemists I called get back to me, but in the meantime, when I say "ketone", for lack of better knowledge of chemistry, I really mean "solvent"

Ketone extracts to me, are, I suppose, either a misnomer or an outright error on my part; more likely the latter. So, you must forgive me, but anyone who has ever used nail polish remover or worked in a chem lab that uses Ketone solvents might have an idea what I'm referring to. If it smells like nail polish remover, it's a solvent, and in my pointy little head, it's a ketone. And since as you say, they're really using Acetone, another key ingredient in nail polish remover... Sigh.

So... moving forward, I shall refrain from using the word "ketone" and say "solvent" Although I might just say "nail polish remover" in future. haha

So, here you go... here's what I found... From the US Government (http://frwebgate5.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=251992131408+5+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve) and they oughta know...

"(3) The term natural flavor or natural flavoring means the essential oil, oleoresin, essence or extractive, protein hydrolysate, distillate, or any product of roasting, heating or enzymolysis, which contains the flavoring constituents derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf
or similar plant material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof, whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional. Natural flavors include the natural
essence or extractives obtained from plants listed in Sec. Sec. 182.10, 182.20, 182.40, and 182.50 and part 184 of this chapter, and the substances listed in Sec. 172.510 of this chapter."

This is a study (http://www.owr.ehnr.state.nc.us/ref/10/09765.pdf) on source reduction of chlorinated solvents and it refers to solvents used in spice oleoresins.

On page 10, it says that of five chlorinated solvents, only Methelyne Chloride (METH) is used in spice oleoresin extraction. It also states that in processes some of the chemical is left behind.

The section of the study that refers to the spice oleoresins starts at the bottom of page 22 and on page 24, it describes the two process for extracting oleoresins...

"In the continuous process, raw spice is pulverized until the required particle size distribution is reached, and then percolated with a volatile solvent like METH. The solvent extracts the active ingredients which impart aroma and taste to the spice. The solution is then boiled and vacuum distilled to remove all but small quantities of the solvent. The resulting product is called oleoresin.

In the batch process, the spice is subjected to steam under pressure, which volatizes the aromatic principals. The spice is then dried and percolated with solvent to remove the flavor principals. Afterwards the essential oils and flavors are combined and form oleoresins."

So, I stand corrected, ketones is the wrong word... they really are using solvents.

Hey, you know what else I learned? METH is cancer causing... some fun huh kids???

Seriously though, given the choice between methylene chloride and ketones, I ask you... which one do YOU want to put in YOUR mouth???

I know my answer... Mega YUCK! Gimme fresh habaneros any day!

T

When speaking of solvents, it is wise to remember that the most versatile (and most used) solvent on the planet is water.

[DEFCON Creator]

Perhaps, but Mother Nature always enjoys the proverbial curve ball, hence the reason capsaicin is insoluable in water.

[Tina Brooks]

Perhaps, but Mother Nature always enjoys the proverbial curve ball, hence the reason capsaicin is insoluable in water.

lol...

Which is why nail polish remover is used.

[DEFCON Creator]

Nail polish, mmmmmmm, taste great on sprats (smoked sardines), the only problem is the liver failure. :shock:

[Tina Brooks]

Nail polish, mmmmmmm, taste great on sprats (smoked sardines), the only problem is the liver failure. :shock:

Whose liver failure... Yours or the sprats'???

[DEFCON Creator]

The strats have been disemboweled before packaged for human consumption. It's lovely ketones and their cousins that have a bad habit of causing renal failure.

[Tina Brooks]

The strats have been disemboweled before packaged for human consumption. It's lovely ketones and their cousins that have a bad habit of causing renal failure.

Liver failure does not sound appetizing.

Say, guess what I just found out... It doesn't seem to be possible to make oleoresin without the use of a solvent.

I'll keep searching, I've got one of our organics suppliers on it, and if it's out there, he'll find it. But I'm starting to think that the sprats took the easy way out... Liver hell is here to stay.

Now I just wonder why anyone is allowed to use the word "natural" when referring to oleoresin... Nail polish remover and paint thinner is simply not what I would call "natural".

Am I being overly picky???

T

[DEFCON Creator]

Picky? Not at all. "Natural" is the epitome of an ambiguous word. Everything on this planet is "natural", otherwise it would come from somewhere else. This includes chemicals. To say ketones are 'natural' is legally correct, although pushing the envelope a bit, because even chemical solvents were created from existing things on the Earth, hence they are in a way 'natural'. Kind of like the phrase "fat free", it's a complete blindfold to the truth, or the best one out there yet is the made-up word, "Lite".

[Tina Brooks]

Picky? Not at all. "Natural" is the epitome of an ambiguous word. Everything on this planet is "natural", otherwise it would come from somewhere else. This includes chemicals. To say ketones are 'natural' is legally correct, although pushing the envelope a bit, because even chemical solvents were created from existing things on the Earth, hence they are in a way 'natural'. Kind of like the phrase "fat free", it's a complete blindfold to the truth, or the best one out there yet is the made-up word, "Lite".

I feel another rant coming on. lol

T

[chuk hell]

Just wanted to post my appreciation to DefCon and Tina for the detail they went into here. It was very educational.

[Tina Brooks]

Just wanted to post my appreciation to DefCon and Tina for the detail they went into here. It was very educational.

Ah shucks.

I can't speak for Defcon, but I love detail. One of the hazards of being me. Besides, it was really fun; one of the better discussions I recall having in a long time...

Now if I could just get John talking politics, I'd be in my glory. :twisted:

T

[DEFCON Creator]

Tina, you know about how I feel about discussing politics in this forum. There are thousands of sites to go to where peopel spill their virtiol-filled bilge, and I really don't want to see this become another George Soros hate-America site. I think you can understand that.

[chuk hell]

Why not keep the politics in "the Lounge" in a particular thread?

Better to avoid it all together I suppose. I've seen things get really ugly on other forums. DefCon is smart about that.

[DEFCON Creator]

One way to think about is, the "Lounge" is in effect a cyber-bar...And what are the 2 things not to be discussed in a bar...Politics and religion. Easy enough.

[Tina Brooks]

One way to think about is, the "Lounge" is in effect a cyber-bar...And what are the 2 things not to be discussed in a bar...Politics and religion. Easy enough.

Lol, See!

I think that in order to get John to talk politics with me, it'll take 750 ml of tequila and 750 ml of raspberries in heat. lol

T

[fineexampl]

So i had some people who are not chileheads, but claim to like hot sauce try some stuff today at my office. I had my adorable 20yr old employee in pain from the stuff. I cut up pieces of bagel and had her dip into some PSE. She is now sucking on ice cubes and can't concentrate. :lol: I had one guy flip me the bird. I love friday and i love hot sauce. :D

[Necrocannibal,]

So i had some people who are not chileheads, but claim to like hot sauce try some stuff today at my office. I had my adorable 20yr old employee in pain from the stuff. I cut up pieces of bagel and had her dip into some PSE. She is now sucking on ice cubes and can't concentrate. :lol: I had one guy flip me the bird. I love friday and i love hot sauce..............

...................And doing some serious grave digging.

[Canuk Pepperhead]

I used to panfry my breasts(outside) with PSF they came out nice but to taste I found it did have a bitter taste to it..I was going to pick up another bottle just because it was one of the first sauces I started with well that and pain and suffering

[fineexampl]

...................And doing some serious grave digging.Nope...i'm the boss. :lol:

[chilehunter]

...................And doing some serious grave digging.

Nope...i'm the boss. :lol:

he means bringing up a very old thread, which is over 2 years old.

[fineexampl]

he means bringing up a very old thread, which is over 2 years old.:oops: Yeah that too...man i am kinda slow today.

[imaguitargod]

he means bringing up a very old thread, which is over 2 years old.

:oops: Yeah that too...man i am kinda slow today.

No worries, it's always best to drudge up an old thread than start a new one on the same subject.

[rabbit]

So i had some people who are not chileheads, but claim to like hot sauce try some stuff today at my office. I had my adorable 20yr old employee in pain from the stuff. I cut up pieces of bagel and had her dip into some PSE. She is now sucking on ice cubes and can't concentrate. :lol: I had one guy flip me the bird. I love friday and i love hot sauce. :D

Hey, my two year old niece is a future chilihead I think I had a calzone covered in hab powder that I gobbled down. I figured I'd see if my niece liked it second hand. (Didn't want to hurt her or anything giving her food with it on. I've got a sense of humor, but not cruel..lol!) I gave her a peck on the lips. You should have seen the look on her face a few seconds later..lol!!. She made a funny face and then started smiling! I think she liked it. Probably because it wasn't to overpowering, but she got a mini pepperburn:lol:. Something tells me that in the future at least my niece will like my cooking...lol!!

[imaguitargod]

Hey, my two year old niece is a future chilihead I think I had a calzone covered in hab powder that I gobbled down. I figured I'd see if my niece liked it second hand. (Didn't want to hurt her or anything giving her food with it on. I've got a sense of humor, but not cruel..lol!) I gave her a peck on the lips. You should have seen the look on her face a few seconds later..lol!!. She made a funny face and then started smiling! I think she liked it. Probably because it wasn't to overpowering, but she got a mini pepperburn:lol:. Something tells me that in the future at least my niece will like my cooking...lol!!
Ah yes, scarring the adults of the future...... :hell:

[rabbit]

Ah yes, scarring the adults of the future...... :hell:

.......Yeah she's scarred for life!!....She liked it that's what's scary!:lol: