Habman's going Hydro!

[habman]

Ok so it's been almost 3 weeks since I started my hydroponic growing of peppers.
Phew... hydroponics is complicated...well yes and no.
Hydroponics itself is very simple. They are lots of good free guides on the Internet, the Chileman's got a very nice guide http://www.thechileman.org/hydro.php

I won't pretend to know what I'm doing. I don't claim this will be a guide for hydroponics. I'm just telling you what I've done and my humble opinions. Nothing more nothing less.

I got an ebb and flow Baby Bloomer hydroponic system from American Hydroponics.
It's not exactly what I wanted but the price was ok. 150$CND comes fully loaded with pump,litmus paper, food( veg and flower), rock wool, clay pebbles, pots, drains and tubing.

I really wanted to build my own ebb and flow but I got tired of looking for parts and stuff and got sweet talked into the baby ebb and flow at the hydro store... D'OH! I'm too impulsive!
So now I got to live with it. I have no complaints, it gets the job done. I had to drill an extra hole at the bottom to be able to change the nutrient solution and bought an extra 18L bucket to dump the used solution.

What I really wanted was to build an Ebb & Gro Multi-Pot Hydroponics System.
No need to buy the system, you can easily build it with your own specs.
This link explains the principle. http://www.hydroponics.net/items/details/multiflow.asp

Here are a few useful links to start your own hydro

http://www.instructables.com/id/EQBFMQANUAERV7BV0D/?ALLSTEPS

http://www.simplyhydro.com/system.htm#EBB%20AND%20FLOW

http://juuri.org/growing/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=61

http://edurink10.tripod.com/hydroideashobbyist/systems.html

[habman]

Even after only 3 weeks there is a big difference.
Both pepper plants (unknown variety) are the same.
They were started at the exact same time.
Currently both plants are under an 85 watts CFL.
The pepper plant that was transplanted in the hydro was falling behind.
When I first transplanted in hydro almost all the leaves fell off. Lost all the flowers.
I was sure it was going to die but after about a 1 1/2 week , it starting to grow back.

Non hydro pepper plant

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/IMG_1982.jpg


3 weeks in Hydro pepper plant

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/IMG_1981.jpg
more pics...
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/IMG_1979.jpg



My baby bloomer hydro system

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/IMG_1984.jpg



I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong with the non-hydro plant. Too much water? not enough? I also add liquid sea weed supplement every week.
One thing for sure it's a lot easier in hydro then in soil.

[imaguitargod]

Hmmm...what's that plant in the bottom right pot(back)... ;)

[habman]

Hmmm...what's that plant in the bottom right pot(back)... ;)

That's midget savory. Not doing too well just transplanted it about 2 days ago. What else did you think it was :rolleyes:

[ABurningMouth]

Cool
Very Nice.

[Txclosetgrower]

Looking great man, I got my 2 2' T5 lights I wanted. Next comes a hydro setup. Can't decide what to go with, ebb and flow does sound nice but i was thinking maybe a DWC. Looks like your plants are loving it.

[habman]

Looking great man, I got my 2 2' T5 lights I wanted. Next comes a hydro setup. Can't decide what to go with, ebb and flow does sound nice but i was thinking maybe a DWC. Looks like your plants are loving it.

I'm no expert but I believe the DWC (Deep Water Culture) is not the best option for growing peppers.
It's very good for lettuce and shorth duration culture but long length culture can lead to root problems even if you put a bubbler.
You can easily make the system better by converting the system to a Ventura Action Drip System.
Not much more expensive, you only need to buy a tube and poke holes into it or buy a dripper.

http://www.1-hydroponics.co.uk/top-tips/drip-irrigation-large.htm

[NagaMad]

I'm no expert but I believe the DWC (Deep Water Culture) is not the best option for growing peppers.
It's very good for lettuce and shorth duration culture but long length culture can lead to root problems even if you put a bubbler.
You can easily make the system better by converting the system to a Ventura Action Drip System.
Not much more expensive, you only need to buy a tube and poke holes into it or buy a dripper.

http://www.1-hydroponics.co.uk/top-tips/drip-irrigation-large.htm


This plant was grown in a DWC, a custom made 35Lt Barrel, and it grew to be a monster.

Plant when transplanted to DWC, July 2006
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/AllCameraPicture18-07-06522.jpg

Plant 1 month later!
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/CameraPics4SEP2006314.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/CameraPics4SEP2006317.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/CameraPics4SEP2006318.jpg

[habman]

[QUOTE=NagaMad;19438]This plant was grown in a DWC, a custom made 35Lt Barrel, and it grew to be a monster.


Wow amazing!!!
Ok like I said I'm no expert :oops:
When I said DWC may not be the optimal system for peppers I was thinking of keeping the plant in an hydroponic system for 6-8 months maybe even a few years. Are the plants still in the DWC?
Then again with so many peppers to try, it may not make much sense to keep it for such a long time.

What kind of pepper is it?
Looks like you are using canna fert. Do you recommend this fert more then the other ones?
The light looks like HPS. Do you grow only under HPS? Don't get me started with lights.... I'm totally obsessed with lights!

[imaguitargod]

Holy Unwashed Underwair! Look at those roots!!!!!!!

[NagaMad]

Wow amazing!!! Thanks for the comment

Ok like I said I'm no expert :oops: Neither am i, can you believe this was my 1st attempt at hydroponics? :lol:

When I said DWC may not be the optimal system for peppers I was thinking of keeping the plant in an hydroponic system for 6-8 months maybe even a few years. Going by the rate of growth i got from DWC, for a plant to grow 8 months in a DWC you would probably need a spare room just to keep it in. :lol:

Are the plants still in the DWC? No, at the end of my season, september, i had to stop my hydroponics. Initially i was going to transplant them, from the photo 1 was a red savina and the other a peach had, in to 15Ltr pots but the plants were huge, 2.5to 3 feet wide and 1.5 to 2.5 feet tall and growing every day they were in the DWC, so i gave then a severe trim. To cut a long story short i couldn't keep them, so they were given away.


Then again with so many peppers to try, it may not make much sense to keep it for such a long time. True, i'm always propagating new varieties

What kind of pepper is it? The one in the pics is a peach hab

Looks like you are using canna fert. Do you recommend this fert more then the other ones? Yeah, your eyes are pretty sharp :lol:. It is Canna fertiliser but i was using canna 'aqua' nutrients; there specifically made for hydro. I was also using the whole line of canna nutrients: Boost Accelerator, Cannazym, PK 13/14, Rhizotonic and Growth Technology's Liquid Oxygen and BioBizz Topmax. You dont have to use all of them, you could just use part A & B and take it from their.

As for any recommendations, i don't really have any. I guess you have to find out what works for you. Canna was ok for me but for next season i am conducting a study. I'll be using the Canna Nutrients and BioBizz nutrients to check which ones better for chilli growing. BioBizz is highly recommended by a chilli growing expert, so i want to see for my self. I'll be using BioBizz: Bio-Grow, Bio-Bloom , Fish-Mix, Alg-A-Mic, TopMax, RootJuice and BioHeaven.

The light looks like HPS. Do you grow only under HPS? Don't get me started with lights.... I'm totally obsessed with lights![/QUOTE] HA Ha ha, you remind me of me when i 1st got into hydro, was obsessed with everything regarding the subject.

You probably wont believe me when i tell you, the lights are CFL! I use CFL for both my seedlings and for growing my established plants. But dont take this statements as a recommmendation for CFL, these were the results i got; if you were to use the same you might get better or worse. However, i am considering upgrading to HPS just to check what results can be obtained but with HPS you might have to use MH or a 'growlux' type bulb; so that you get all spectrums of light a plant needs.

Thanks for the comments, adios.

[NagaMad]

Holy Unwashed Underwair! Look at those roots!!!!!!!

I know there mad huh?

When i gave the plants a trim, i cut the roots off just below the bottom of the net pot and stuck them to a pice of string using clear tape and used them as a fake beard:lol:

I think i have a photo somewhere....

[imaguitargod]

I know there mad huh?

When i gave the plants a trim, i cut the roots off just below the bottom of the net pot and stuck them to a pice of string using clear tape and used them as a fake beard:lol:

I think i have a photo somewhere....
Now THAT I want to see!

[marcosauces]

about a fake mullet for the guitargod..:)

[Txclosetgrower]

Right on, I'm growing under T5 fluorescents and CFLs right now, and I was hoping I wouldn't need to upgrade to HPS or MH simply cause I don't want to have to deal with the heat. I think i have like 12,000 lumens worth of light going in the closet right now (2 2' T5s at 2000 lumens a piece, 2 42 watt cfls at 2700 lumens a piece, and 2 23 watt cfls at 1700 lumens a piece).

Stay tuned for the hydro system to follow shortly, its still being designed in my head, but now I'm leaning more towards flood & drain or kinda drip system, so I won't have to have quite as much water at any given time. I'm thinking about a 15 gallon reservoir for a 4-6 plant system with the res on bottom and plants on top.

Someone showed me a great design for a drip recirulating system they built from 4 or 6" PVC pipe w/ holes cut in it for net pots that is a kinda recirculating almost drip system except his puts out way too much water to be considered dripping lol. Picture a 3 foot length of pvc pipe horizontal w/ 3 mesh pots sitting in it from the side. It is at an very slight angle and drains out of the end of the pipe back down into the res below it. Pretty cheap to build it seems. I'll throw together a ms paint drawing tomorrow some time. I think I'm gonna hold off on starting any more seeds til I get my hydro system set up.

[Guy Holman]

Hi

I set this up earlier in the year buthave still to use it.....got thr wrong nutrients and live a long way from Toulouse where I had to go to replace it....anyway I have opted for an aeroponic system. Pretty basic this litle unit, but its intended to be a trial system for a bigger unit with a little more umph in the pump department.

I started out with a supermarket shopping basket with very handy lid that my father got me a few years back from the obvious retailer..lol

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/Hydro/WShopingBasket.jpg


I already had some cut offs of drip irrigation supply pipe and a few spare (if such things can ever be really spare)angled junction pieces to boot, so I just made a rectangular frame to fit about 2 inches from the rim of the open bucket. To this i attatched a down or rather up pipe from a small aquarium pump to supply the rectangle. More drip irigation kit came in handy too, four small 90° misters were planted into the pipe to cover two pots that were eventually to be supported in the lid.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/Hydro/WSetup-not-running.jpg

The unit contains 18 litres of nutrient and has been run for a week with just plain water, as I had originally used very fine misters to spray the pots but the pump was just not up to the job. The 90° sprayers are much easier to run with a small pump and seem to keep the pot area really well covered. .

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/Hydro/WSetup-running.jpg

Now all I have to do is get some damn plants into it....I now have all i need but have been waiting until after the christmas and new year stint!!!

Now its back to my own personal drip system....

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b56/Guy_Holman/beer-drip.jpg

Do go and have a very fine New Years of your own.

All the very best

Guy

[NagaMad]

Hey Guy, How have you been? Have you been getting my PM? Can you please post a reply on this thread as to whether you have received my pm's? Thanks :)

Nice aeroponics unit! :)

Sorry iamguitargod but i wont be posting the pic of me with the 'root' beard :P

Im currently working on plans for a new DWC, so hopefully i should have some good pics for next season. The only problem is, which plant do i put in the system so that it can grow to be a monster?

Here a pic of a Maui Purple grown hydroponically, but later transplanted to soil.
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/NagaPlants7032.jpg

[Tony]

Hi Habman,

Glad you liked the hydro guide. As already pointed out, deep water
is good for fast growing crops as the roots tend to rot from their
constant submersion. Most of the planets lettuce is grow using this
method but it is poorly suited to chilies unless you oxygenate
the nutrient well.

There are other methods, like flood and drain that are also very
cheap to run but produce better results for less work.

Keep us updated on your progress, I'm always interested in
case studies to guage the benefits and pitfalls of each type
of system in the search for low-cost, effective hydro systems.
It's very easy to spend a lot of money with hydro and produce
result only marginally better than soil.

Tony.

[RedThumb]

Here a pic of a Maui Purple grown hydroponically, but later transplanted to soil.


That's a beautiful plant. How does it taste?

[habman]

Update

Added mylar and another 85 watts CFL (3000K).
Changed to flowering Nutrient solution.
Got PPM and PH meter.
Nutrient solution is at ~1030PPM with ~5.90PH solution Temp is ~72F

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/hydrosetup2.jpg

Hydro and non-hydro pic
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/20060114_hydro_nonhydro.jpg


Top view of hydro pepper
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/topview.jpg

Flower -- Can anyone ID this plant from the flower?
Possibilities are :Cuaresmeno(jalapeno),serrano,Habanero cancun and Chilaca.(I got the seeds from the market last time I went to Mexico so could have cross)

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/IMG_2021.jpg

[imaguitargod]

It's not a serrano, I'm sure of that.

[P_Schneider]

Hey everyone,
I'm glad this thread got started since I've been looking at systems lately. I've been looking at both ebb & flow systems and drip systems. I hadn't considered the DWC method until I read this. I'm strongly leaning towards an ebb & flow solution, something small. Are there any critical components that I shouldn't do without? The amount of products available is pretty extensive so I'm finding it a challenge to sort through them all.
btw, I'm not interested in building one, I prefer a ready made solution, any suggestions?

[Cap'n Bones]

I'm lovin this thread, but boy does it make me feel like the rookie that I am..

[imaguitargod]

I'm lovin this thread, but boy does it make me feel like the rookie that I am..
From my experience, you will always be the rookie. No matter how much we read and learn, there will alway be someone who will come along and smack us upside the head with something we've never even considered. I wish I had the know how to do hydroponics.

[marcosauces]

Rookie..?????....you guys make me feel like i don't know nothing about growing plants..!!

[NagaMad]

That's a beautiful plant. How does it taste?

its an ornamental plant, i just grew it for its looks. didn't try the pods, soz cant help you. Any of the other members tried the pods?

Also folks look out for the Hydro-minotaur, a new DWC project that i am working on. Im hoping it will blow away the results of my last DWC (see pics above)

[NagaMad]

[QUOTE=habman;20400]Update

Added mylar and another 85 watts CFL (3000K).
Changed to flowering Nutrient solution.
Got PPM and PH meter.
Nutrient solution is at ~1030PPM with ~5.90PH solution Temp is ~72F

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/hydrosetup2.jpg


Just a thought, but you might be better using a reflector, so that the light is more focused down towards the plant canopy. Since you are paying for the electricity theres no point in wasting it

[Pepper Belly]

I'm a NOOB :oops:

[willard3]

Habman:

1030 ppm is high nutrient level for chiles. I use from 450-550 ppm.

Best to keep ph nearer 6.5.

[POTAWIE]

I agree with Willard that your nutrient level is high. You also said that you are changing to a flowering solution. Chiles don't need to be pumped with a lot of flowering nutrients even in hydroponics so watch you don't overdo it.

[Shooty*]

I can't look at the title of this thread without thinking of Duffman from Simpsons saying "Duffman's Going Hydro! Hoo, yeah!"

sorry.

That aside, fantastic, interesting content.

[habman]

What's the effect of having the PPM too high?
am I just wasting money by having the PPM at 1000 or does it have a negative effect? (I'm growing tomatoes and herbs with the same nutrient solution)
Oregano died again... tryed it in dirt also died... bummer.
I'll have to do more research.Maybe too much light.

[habman]

Just a thought, but you might be better using a reflector, so that the light is more focused down towards the plant canopy. Since you are paying for the electricity theres no point in wasting it

Agreed.The original plan was to cover the upper shelf with mylar and screw the CFL on the upper shelf and adjusting the hight as needed.Well that did not work well ajusting the upper shelf with the lights was a big pain in the ...
Plan 2 was to build my own reflector then I remembered how nerdy I was :shocked:
Plan 3 buy pre-built reflectors. They cost 50-75$ each and I need 3 of them plus they're huge.
Plan 4 buy a 400 watts digital ballast..Yeah baby gimme some power!:mouthonfire:

So I chose plan 4. Ordered a 400 watts Galaxy digital ballast. I should get it within 2 weeks. I will get the agrosun self reflector red hps bulb.

[habman]

Hey everyone,
I'm glad this thread got started since I've been looking at systems lately. I've been looking at both ebb & flow systems and drip systems. I hadn't considered the DWC method until I read this. I'm strongly leaning towards an ebb & flow solution, something small. Are there any critical components that I shouldn't do without? The amount of products available is pretty extensive so I'm finding it a challenge to sort through them all.
btw, I'm not interested in building one, I prefer a ready made solution, any suggestions?

If you want something small and pre-built, the Baby bloomer ebb & flow could be just what you're looking for.
My setup fits on a 18" by 36" shelf.
The system came with everything to get started.
I had to drill an extra hole on the side to purge the nutrient solution into a 5 galon bucket.
You may need to use Willard's method of pepper cloning if you plan to plant more then 4 pepper plants.

[habman]

It's not a serrano, I'm sure of that.

Great thx.

After looking again at the chileman database, I'm now 99% certain it's a chilaca.

http://www.thechileman.org/results.php?find=chilaca&heat=Any&origin=Any&genus=Any&chile=1&submit=Search

[P_Schneider]

So I've been out researching hydro systems and I stumbled upon this unit by Stealth Hydro (http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=2&xSec=2). It's not a bad deal, I tried pricing the individual components to build my own but cant come close for under $200. The only thing I'm worried about is 4" net pots. Is 4" to small for naga plants?

[willard3]

The only thing I'm worried about is 4" net pots. Is 4" to small for naga plants?


I grow poblanos and other large chiles in 3-1/2" net pots. Hydro doesn't require much root for a very healthy plant....if the roots get too large, prune them back to the net pot.

[habman]

So I've been out researching hydro systems and I stumbled upon this unit by Stealth Hydro (http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=2&xSec=2). It's not a bad deal, I tried pricing the individual components to build my own but cant come close for under $200. The only thing I'm worried about is 4" net pots. Is 4" to small for naga plants?

The 4" net is only for stabilizing the plant.
The roots will grow into the reservoir just like DWC.


Start by answering these questions :
1) How much money are you willing to put in for Hydro kit
2) How much space do you have
3) Where will you put the hydro? garage, living room ...
4) How much natural light will the plants get
5) How many plants you plan on growing
6) What size the will the plants get once fully grown

[P_Schneider]

Ah very cool. Thanks guys. My concern wasn't really about the roots but rather if it would be enough support once the pods came in. It sounds like the roots pretty well wrap themselves through the mesh so that should work.

Start by answering these questions :
1) How much money are you willing to put in for Hydro kit
I was looking to spend around $250, so at $209. with the upgraded CFLs I'm still within budget. I could even spring for the extra 6 months nutrients and come out at $238.

2) How much space do you have
Minimal, but what I have is a unique space, plus I rent so I can't get too creative.

3) Where will you put the hydro? garage, living room ...
I'm in an old house that has a small room (6x4) with a six foot window facing south. Plenty of natural light, even in the winter, but it has no heat running to it. Now it is on the second floor and the window provides a good amount of radiant heat when the sun is out.

4) How much natural light will the plants get
See above.

5) How many plants you plan on growing
Just 6 naga's this year. I'll grow the rest of my peppers in the garden like last year but I wanted these separate from those. I don't want to take a chance on cross pollinating these naga's.

6) What size the will the plants get once fully grown
I have no idea with hydroponics, in the ground I would expect about 2.5' - 3' here in MN. That's about how tall most of my other habs grow to.

At any rate, what did you guys think of the concept? It sorta like a cross between a DWC and continuous drip. Should be interesting. It's the only setup I seen that came with lights, test kit, and all the other extras so I think I'm sold on it. Hell they even throw in the power strips, gotta love that.

[habman]

Ok given this info let me put in my 2 cents.

Given the size of the system, you will not be able to grow 6 Naga to maturity.
2-3 with lots of good pruning should be very doable. You can always clone them to keep them small ( tip given by Willard ).
In the other nets, you can always put some herbs. I just can't live without fresh basil, oregano, mint and cilantro. You can also grow some Tiny Tim or Micro Tom tomatoes they are incredibly small tomato plants.

I had a cheap timer. It's a waste of money.
Go and buy a good digital timer around 30$. You will be able to have 7 programs (mine has 14) and you can specify a short duration for cycle. With the non digital the minimum cycle time is usually 30 minutes.


Personally I prefer liquid nutrients. General Hydroponics is very good. Best thing about GH is that you can experiment and tweak the nutrients (micro,veg,flora).
They have a neat calculator on their web site for tweaking.

http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/floraseries_calculator.html

http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/floraseries.html


For PH I had cheap litmus paper. Completely useless. Some litmus paper are better and more precise but really can't compare to digital PH.
I got Hanna dip stick for 50$. Very happy with it.

http://www.specialty-lights.com/hi98103.html


Since you will be putting it on south window you should get a good amount of light even during winter.
So you only need supplemental lights.
The lights they are selling are just plain CFL you can buy at the store. Walmart sells the "Dual spectrum" which looks like 40 watts CFL 10$ each and the fixtures you can also get at walmart for 5 $ each.
Veg is 6500K and flower is 3000K.
The dual spectrum ll are 85 watts CFLs. That's what I have they work very well but lots of light is loss from the center and the sides .They are less efficient then 54 watts T5 which put out 5000 lumens the 85 watts CFL put out 4200 lumens.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/products.php?cat=85-Watt-Compact-Fluorescents



No doubt the system will work great and yes for the price I think you are getting a good deal.
Personally I would just buy the basic system and buy a cheap digital PH meter, 2X 36" T5 3000K and digital timer.
Then again it's fun to open a box and have everything working right away. Besides you can always upgrade components later.

[P_Schneider]

Ya I will do some shopping around for the different parts on the lighting. I don't know how successful I will be, we have a "ghetto" walmart here. I might try menards or home depot. Thanks for the tips on the plants. I will do 3 naga's and some spices or something, see how it goes. Or I just might say the hell with it and get the kit, upgrading the bulbs of course.

[P_Schneider]

So I went to wal mart today and what a pleasant supprise that was. It seems our wal mart is expanding and they have a whole isle worth of fl and cfl lighting now. :onfire: I picked up a couple of cfls for the time being for my 2 plants that I'm overwintering. 2 - 26 watt, 1600 lumen, 6500k, less than $10 for the pair. I plan on getting a 4' T12/T8 fixture with the appropriate T8 bulbs when I get the hydro unit. They have T5 bulbs there but the only fixtures are single bulb specialty applications like under counter stuff.
My question is are the T5's that much better than the T8's? From what I've seen online the fixtures are what kill you price wise. The T12/T8 4' fixture goes for less than $20. I can get a complete 4 bulb T8 setup for less than $50.

So with that in mind, my plans have shifted a bit. Since I have more in my budget I'm think the GH Ecogrower (http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/ecogrower.html) would be a better fit for my needs for just about the same money. I should be able to grow 6 naga's in that thing I would hope. It's pretty much a complete kit, I really only need to buy test equipment and lights at this point.

I love February, it means it's just about time to plant!

[habman]

So I went to wal mart today and what a pleasant supprise that was. It seems our wal mart is expanding and they have a whole isle worth of fl and cfl lighting now. :onfire: I picked up a couple of cfls for the time being for my 2 plants that I'm overwintering. 2 - 26 watt, 1600 lumen, 6500k, less than $10 for the pair. I plan on getting a 4' T12/T8 fixture with the appropriate T8 bulbs when I get the hydro unit. They have T5 bulbs there but the only fixtures are single bulb specialty applications like under counter stuff.
My question is are the T5's that much better than the T8's? From what I've seen online the fixtures are what kill you price wise. The T12/T8 4' fixture goes for less than $20. I can get a complete 4 bulb T8 setup for less than $50.

So with that in mind, my plans have shifted a bit. Since I have more in my budget I'm think the GH Ecogrower (http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/ecogrower.html) would be a better fit for my needs for just about the same money. I should be able to grow 6 naga's in that thing I would hope. It's pretty much a complete kit, I really only need to buy test equipment and lights at this point.

I love February, it means it's just about time to plant!

Since you are growing facing the south window you don't need that much extra light.
You want to buy T5 when you are growing full plants in no light situations like in a garage. Then you buy the very expensive T5 fixtures which can be somewhat compared to the output of HID lighting.
Or you can buy 1 or 2 strip bars which contains only one tube and use them for supplemental lighting but they cost around 30-40$ each at the hydro shops.The advantage is you can place each strip exactly where you need extra light (one on top the other one on the side).
T8 is the best choice for you. They are cheap and very efficient but they put out less lumens then T5.If you need more light just buy another fixture.

The general rule for lighting is 30-40 watts per sq feet. That's not really a good way to measure light needs but it's a lot more easy to understand then micromoles per square meter per second.
People usually mix warm-white and cool-white lights to cover the spectrum (1 6500K tube and 1 3000k tube).

[P_Schneider]

cool, thx for your help guys, I will keep you posted on my progress.

[habman]

[QUOTE=P_Schneider;20781]
5) How many plants you plan on growing
Just 6 naga's this year. I'll grow the rest of my peppers in the garden like last year but I wanted these separate from those. I don't want to take a chance on cross pollinating these naga's.
[]

If you are doing hydro just for isolation , you can plant outside and use elmer's glue on the flower before it opens.
Much cheaper then hydro.

[P_Schneider]

[QUOTE=P_Schneider;20781]
5) How many plants you plan on growing
Just 6 naga's this year. I'll grow the rest of my peppers in the garden like last year but I wanted these separate from those. I don't want to take a chance on cross pollinating these naga's.
[]

If you are doing hydro just for isolation , you can plant outside and use elmer's glue on the flower before it opens.
Much cheaper then hydro.

Well isolation is one of the reasons. The fact that I live in the frozen tundra and have a fairly short growing season is another. Besides, money I have, patience for putting Elmer's glue on plant nodes... not so much.:lol: Thanks for the advice though.

Got a question for you though, you use the Flora line of nutrients don't you? If so, do you use any of the supplements that they have listed on their grow sheets or does the micro, grow, and bloom do the trick by themselves?

[willard3]

I use only micro grow and bloom. Others use supplements and I have tried them, too, but my data indicates that the supplements don't make any measureble change.

[habman]

Got a question for you though, you use the Flora line of nutrients don't you? If so, do you use any of the supplements that they have listed on their grow sheets or does the micro, grow, and bloom do the trick by themselves?

I don't use the Flora line. I still have the generic cheap nutrient that came with the Baby bloomer hydro kit(looks like it's working ok). But the next nute I buy will be the flora series.

The micro, grow, and bloom is all you need.
What is great about the flora line is the fact that you can tweak the solution to the need of the plants you are growing by varying the amount of micro, grow, and bloom.


Most brands of nutrients come in veg with 2 parts: A and B and flora with 2 parts: A and B.

[P_Schneider]

Cool, it looks like the flora stuff is what comes with the ecogrower so I should be set. I might swap out the micro for micro-hardwater since that can be an issue up here but we shall see what happens with the regular micro first.

Thanks guys,

[P_Schneider]

Well, mark it sold. Just need the lights and the test equipment, but that can wait until next check. I needed to spend $250. for the free shipping at GrowCo (http://www.4hydroponics.com/) but at 29lbs shipping weight it was worth it, plus I need the other stuff anyway. Can't wait to plant!

$9.95 1 General Hydroponics Liquid Pro pH Down - 1 quart
$9.95 1 General Hydroponics Liquid Pro pH Up - 1 quart
$11.95 1 Gel4Plugs rooting gel - 250 ml
$179.95 1 General Hydroponics EcoGrower
$8.49 1 FloraKleen cleaning and flushing solution - 1 quart
$9.75 1 Grodan Rockwool Cubes: 98 wrapped mini-blocks - 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5
$34.25 1 Hot House with heat mat and tall dome

[habman]

Well, mark it sold. Just need the lights and the test equipment, but that can wait until next check. I needed to spend $250. for the free shipping at GrowCo (http://www.4hydroponics.com/) but at 29lbs shipping weight it was worth it, plus I need the other stuff anyway. Can't wait to plant!

$9.95 1 General Hydroponics Liquid Pro pH Down - 1 quart
$9.95 1 General Hydroponics Liquid Pro pH Up - 1 quart
$11.95 1 Gel4Plugs rooting gel - 250 ml
$179.95 1 General Hydroponics EcoGrower
$8.49 1 FloraKleen cleaning and flushing solution - 1 quart
$9.75 1 Grodan Rockwool Cubes: 98 wrapped mini-blocks - 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5
$34.25 1 Hot House with heat mat and tall dome


Great but now the hard part is waiting for package to arrive :)

[P_Schneider]

Great but now the hard part is waiting for package to arrive :)

Tell me about it. I did pick up the lights yesterday. 2 T12, 6500K, 3065 lumen, 4ft tubes and 2 T12, 3000k, 3000 lumen tubes with a T12/T8 75watt hanging fixture and mounting brackets. I know the T8's are supposed to produce more lights but the T12's were actually rated higher as far as lumens go. Plus they had the right colors in T12. Must be the difference in wattage, the T8's are only 32 watts and the T12's are 40 watts. Also picked up an airstone for the bottom of the tank.
The bright side is that I should receive shipment next week which gives me a week for setup before I plant. Only 1 thing left to buy and that's the tester. I have an aquarium with a liquid ph test kit so that will do until I get a digital one.

This is going to be fun!

Just checked UPS, Estimated delivery date - 2/5/07! Very fast shipping for UPS ground from this site.

[habman]

Update 2006-02-04

I finally got and installed my 400watts Digital ballast with a GE Lucalox HPS lamp(average 45 000 lumens).
So these will be the last pics of my plants under normal 2X85 watts CFL (~10 000 lumens).
They really worked well. A got plenty of growth and flowers and I was even able to grow a chilaca and some tomatoes.
Both the chilaca and tomatoes got some major pruning done on them.
Adjusting the lights for growth was bit of pain.
I probably should have used more red light (3000K). The chilaca plant is way to bushy, it does not look natural(too much blue light?). But that's not a bad thing when growing under restrictive space.
The chilaca pepper is growing at a rate of 0.5 cm per day. It's now measuring about 8cm.

I had one major incident last week which almost put an end to my hydroponic pepper career. A leak on my baby bloomer reservoir, there was a bit of damage to the wood floor but I was lucky to spot the problem early on.
I tried just about every type of glue to fix the problem. Nothing worked. The only thing that worked was CPVC glue. I think I spent 50$ trying different kind of glue. ::Bang head on the wall::

Yesterday I had to remove all my plants from the hydro to fix the leak. They had no water and light for almost a full day. Looks like they will survive without too much damage hopefully the chilica will not drop fruit after all this stress.
Hydro setup
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/hydro.jpg

Non-Hydro Hydro
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/NonHydro_Hydro_CHilaca.jpg

Chilaca size
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/chilicaSize.jpg

[P_Schneider]

Update 2006-02-04

I finally got and installed my 400watts Digital ballast with a GE Lucalox HPS lamp(average 45 000 lumens).
So these will be the last pics of my plants under normal 2X85 watts CFL (~10 000 lumens).
They really worked well. A got plenty of growth and flowers and I was even able to grow a chilaca and some tomatoes.
Both the chilaca and tomatoes got some major pruning done on them.
Adjusting the lights for growth was bit of pain.
I probably should have used more red light (3000K). The chilaca plant is way to bushy, it does not look natural(too much blue light?). But that's not a bad thing when growing under restrictive space.
The chilaca pepper is growing at a rate of 0.5 cm per day. It's now measuring about 8cm.

I had one major incident last week which almost put an end to my hydroponic pepper career. A leak on my baby bloomer reservoir, there was a bit of damage to the wood floor but I was lucky to spot the problem early on.
I tried just about every type of glue to fix the problem. Nothing worked. The only thing that worked was CPVC glue. I think I spent 50$ trying different kind of glue. ::Bang head on the wall::

Yesterday I had to remove all my plants from the hydro to fix the leak. They had no water and light for almost a full day. Looks like they will survive without too much damage hopefully the chilica will not drop fruit after all this stress.

Wow, how big of a room do you have? You could probably cook a pizza or something under those lights.:lol: Seriously nice setup though.
My little room is still under construction, the kit arrives tomorrow, lights are setup, and my 2 plants that I'm wintering are loving life with all the new light. It actually looks warm and inviting in there which is strange considering it's been below zero outside for the last 3 days now.
I have about 2 weeks yet before I plant so everything is on schedule.

[NagaMad]

Hi Folks

I built myself a 4 pod Ebb & Flow (Flood and Drain) system, let me know what you think.

the link is

http://chillisgalore.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2942&highlight=

[imaguitargod]

Hi Folks

I built myself a 4 pod Ebb & Flow (Flood and Drain) system, let me know what you think.

the link is

http://chillisgalore.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2942&highlight=
It asks for a login.

[P_Schneider]

well the first part of my setup showed up yesterday. The rooting gel, ph up and ph down, and the florakleen all showed up frozen solid as a rock from sitting in the UPS warehouse over the weekend. I contacted the guy and he said that freezing wont bother these liquids. Does anybody know if this is true? I'm a bit concerned about the rest of the shipment which should be here today or tomorrow. The nutrients come in that shipment and I can't help think that freezing would be bad for those.

[habman]

well the first part of my setup showed up yesterday. The rooting gel, ph up and ph down, and the florakleen all showed up frozen solid as a rock from sitting in the UPS warehouse over the weekend. I contacted the guy and he said that freezing wont bother these liquids. Does anybody know if this is true? I'm a bit concerned about the rest of the shipment which should be here today or tomorrow. The nutrients come in that shipment and I can't help think that freezing would be bad for those.

Should not be a prolem but the nutrient solutions will be damaged if frozen.

[habman]

More pics

Thai Orange
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/ThaiOrange.jpg

Pretty Puple, Big Jim and lemon drop
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/PrettyPurplebigJimLemonDrop.jpg

caribbean Red : very small takes forever to grow...
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/CarabeanRed.jpg

[imaguitargod]

Awww, how cute!

[P_Schneider]

Should not be a prolem but the nutrient solutions will be damaged if frozen.

Well the rest of the kit arrived yesterday and of course the nutrients were all frozen. I contacted Genhydro and here is the response they sent back.

They should be fine once they have thawed. They are 100% water soluble mineral nutrients with no organic/biological ingredients so the nutritional content will be unchanged. If you want to test them just dilute some in water and test the ppm or ec and you will have a good idea if it is still viable.

So we shall see. I added some flora gro to my plants that I'm wintering so we shall see if I see any improvements in growth. That should tell me for sure if the stuff is still good. (I have yet to get my test equipment)

[NagaMad]

Does anyone know whats the deal with digital ballast?

In the UK, Growell; one of the best know hydro stores, has dropped DB from their website and brochure because of problems with starting and radio interference (i think).

Any one else know any problems with DBs?

Also hadman, what is the size of room that your using the 400w system in?

[habman]

Does anyone know whats the deal with digital ballast?

In the UK, Growell; one of the best know hydro stores, has dropped DB from their website and brochure because of problems with starting and radio interference (i think).

Any one else know any problems with DBs?

Also hadman, what is the size of room that your using the 400w system in?

Digital ballast are more efficient then the old magnetic ballast.
They have a "smart chip" that detects and maintain a constant output.
They also have soft start which increases the lamp life.(The soft start is the problem with starting some lamps with some DB).
They can run both Metal Halide and HPS.
They run super quiet and relatively cool without a fan.

But .....
They cost a lot more.
They operate on a much higher frequency (some people have reported interference with some home items).
I've run it for more then a week now, it's in my grow room/home office and I have not noticed any interference whatsoever and my computer is about 4 feet away from the ballast.
Some ballast more then others (lumatek) have problems starting some HID lights and have high failure rate.
The high failure rate may not be a problem anymore.It's new technologie so the first ones are not perfect.


My grow space is ridiculous! 18" by 36" surrounded by mylar.:cool:
I have doubled my growing space to 18 X 80" but I need to modify my HID reflector so I can use the light for 18" x 80".

I'm running it with a 20$ GE Lucalox HPS lamp (It's not sold for growing plants, it's a street light HPS!).
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/GE_Lucalox.jpg



I got the ballast from bghydro
http://www.bghydro.com/BGH/Itemdesc.asp?ic=HLBADIGA04&eq=&Tp=

[NagaMad]

My grow space is ridiculous! 18" by 36" surrounded by mylar.:cool:
I have doubled my growing space to 18 X 80" but I need to modify my HID reflector so I can use the light for 18" x 80".

I'm running it with a 20$ GE Lucalox HPS lamp (It's not sold for growing plants, it's a street light HPS!).
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k311/playavince_vodka/gardenweb/GE_Lucalox.jpg





Hi Habman

Thanks for the DB info, im currently considering in upgrading to HID lights, so not sure if to go with DBs or the normal ones.

How much heat does a normal 400w ballast out put?
My space is 6' x 9' x 6' (72" x 108" x 72")
[width x length x height]

Im thinking of an initial light set up of 2 x 400w systems or the aurora gemini system by canatronics; the ballast has the timer and contractor integrated and both lights run from the one ballast, so it helps in reducing the number of cables.

Any thoughts would be welcome and not just from Habman, everyones invited to give their 2 cents

thanks
Naga

[habman]

Hi NagaMad,

2 X 4000watts is the right choice. You will get plenty of light.

My advice to you is go with your budget.
If money is not an issue the choice is easy : Digital Balast.
It's got many advantages over the old magnetic ballast.
But the fact that it's first generation some Digital Ballast are better then others.
I chose the Galaxy in most part because of what BGHydro had to say.But how much can you trust a seller?

If you go with a magnetic ballast be sure to chose the right one (MH or HPS).
Metal Halide is said to be the best light for crops that don't get external light.
You can always buy a conversion lamp but you will pay 20-30$ more and the light output will be a lot less.
In your case running a Metal Halide and and HPS would be optimal.

HPS lamps are generally all the same. The best ones have 10% extra blue and red but they are very expensive.
MH lamps you must select carefuly they are big diffrences between lamps.

The best HPS $/value lamp is Sylvania Gro-Lux but some people have reported unusual lamp burnouts.

Whatever you chose I'm sure you'll be growing monster crops again this year.

[willard3]

Hi NagaMad,
MH lamps you must select carefuly they are big diffrences between lamps

Avoid Venture MH lamps at all costs....the price is right but they burn out quickly and Venture does not honor their warranty.

Sylvania lamps have always been dependable for me with good lamp life.

[NagaMad]

Hi folks

i have a small set up in dundee, im studying here, and these were the results i got.

Plant in January
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/TD-PutintoSystem.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/TD-28Jan2007.jpg

Plant in February
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/TD-24Feb2007.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/DSC03925.jpg

To tell you the truth, i am a bit disappointed at the rate of growth; i would have thought that it would be a lot bigger since it was in hydro but then again i dont have my GrowRoom; man i miss it. I havent been able to control temp, air etc so maybe thats whats causing the lack of growth.

But on a positive note the plant has started to bud and as you can see there budding like crazy, 10 or so per node (i think thats correct).

[NagaMad]

some additional photos, sorry about the quality!

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/DSC04004.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/NagaMad/DSC03993.jpg

[imaguitargod]

They look happy!

[Dyce51]

If you're homebuilding a system....What water cycle do you use? What I mean is how often do you want your pump to turn on (for the "flood" or ebb system)? Hydo may be an option for me...

[willard3]

I have an aero system that recirculates nutrient and it runs 16 hrs/day (same as lights).

[habman]

If you're homebuilding a system....What water cycle do you use? What I mean is how often do you want your pump to turn on (for the "flood" or ebb system)? Hydo may be an option for me...

I use 5 X 15min cycles with 16 hours light cycle.

[P_Schneider]

Question for you guys, do I need to let my hydro system run for a bit before I add plants to it? If so how long should I run it?

[habman]

Question for you guys, do I need to let my hydro system run for a bit before I add plants to it? If so how long should I run it?

yeah let run at least one day with only water.
Just to make sure everything is working ok and no leaks.
If you use Hydroton Rocks make sure to wash them before putting them in the hydro.These things contain alot of dust.

[P_Schneider]

yeah let run at least one day with only water.
Just to make sure everything is working ok and no leaks.
If you use Hydroton Rocks make sure to wash them before putting them in the hydro.These things contain alot of dust.

Cool, thx

[P_Schneider]

Well the hydro is up and running. nutrients are at around 600ppm, ph is around 6.1, and temp is 70.1. I broke open a Thai pod and squeezed a bunch of seeds directly into the hydrotron in one pot, planted my Numex BJ in another pot, and a twig that busted off of my mature Thai plant in a 3rd. So far nothing has died but I haven't had any new sprouts yet. The other 3 pots are for some Red Savinas but they need a week yet under the hothouse dome. So far so good. I will update pics this weekend.


*Edit*
Photo galleries updated

[habman]

>>>>Well the hydro is up and running. nutrients are at around 600ppm, ph is around 6.1, and temp is 70.1.

Sounds perfect.

>>>> I broke open a Thai pod and squeezed a bunch of seeds directly into the hydrotron in one pot, planted my Numex BJ in another pot, and a twig that busted off of my mature Thai plant in a 3rd.

You seeded directly in hydroton?
I always start my seedlings in grodan cubes (my avatar is a grodan cube and no it's not a tomatoe it's a roccoto or is a cherry pepper...hmmm) Wait until you can see some roots come out of the cube and then put it in the hydro.
The great part of having the seedlings in grodan cube is if for any reason the pumps breaks down the plant will still have some water and food for at least a day or 2. Trust me things break down......

>>>>> So far nothing has died but I haven't had any new sprouts yet. The other 3 pots are for some Red Savinas but they need a week yet under the hothouse dome. So far so good. I will update pics this weekend.

Nice pics on your web site. I wish I was that organized.

[P_Schneider]

Ok, I've been watching ppm and ph the last couple days and noticed that the ph is holding steady but the ppm has been creeping up. It's up to just under 800 now and I've had about an inch of evaporation.
My assumption is that the 2 little seedlings I have don't consume enough nutrients to keep pace with the evaporation and that's how it's getting out of balance.
My other assumption is that when I have full grown plants I will likely have the opposite problem, of nutrients being consumed and the ppm dropping.

Am I on the right track here?

Habman, thanks for the props.

*edit*
On the seeds thing, ya I just added them to see what would happen.

[Txclosetgrower]

Well, i'm technically growing hydro now:shocked: I've got 5 plants in coco coir/perlite mix hand watering/feeding once a day 3ml/l Hesi coco nutrient pH'd to 5.8-6.0(I water until about 20% of what I fed has ran out the bottom to flush with every feeding and flush out anything built up so as to keep nute level/ec in the medium fairly constant). Plants were transplanted from the small pots i bought them in into 8" pots of coir on saturday, and never once showed any signs of transplant shock. Haven't shown much growth either, but when you transplant roots come first then a growth spurt. Overall they look very happy and green.

I've heard nothing but great things about coco coir. I love the fact that I can water it every day and not drown my plants. In fact, from what I've read the biggest mistake people make with coir is treating it like soil instead of like a hydro medium. If you water it, let it dry out, water it again you tend to get salt build up and have problems. But if you hand water every day and let a good bit run-off you can feed every watering and get the most hydroponic-like growth rates.

I had a hard time finding anything about growing in coco coir on the net at first. But I finally found a good source of info. Haha, and I know this might sound bad, but if you're ever interested in learning a whole lot about growing in coco or any other medium, the guys over at the some of the "herbal" cultivation boards have a wealth of guides and information about all types of hydroponic cultivation techniques. Judging from pictures they know what they're doing lol. But yeah, what works for one living plant can surely be customized to work for our more legal choice of vegetable :cool:

[NagaMad]

Those 'herbal' boys are away a head of us chilli dudes when it comes to hydro...LOL :lol:

[P_Schneider]

Well It's early April and I have finally found time to transplant some seedlings.
First off, the Thai twig died as soon as the pepper turned red so I tossed that.
Second, the Thai seed that I had sown directly into the hydrotron did great and I transplanted them into coco coir save 1, which I left there.
Third, I transplanted the Savina's into the hydrodtron.
So far so good, the plants looks happy. Now if it would just make it about 40f outside I would be happy!

EcoGrower (http://www.pbase.com/p_schneider/image/76817641)

[P_Schneider]

Question for you guys. How often do you change your water/nutrients? I've had the same stuff perking for about 3 weeks now and everything seems to be fine, plants are doing great actually. Just curious if there is a recommended change cycle.

[habman]

Question for you guys. How often do you change your water/nutrients? I've had the same stuff perking for about 3 weeks now and everything seems to be fine, plants are doing great actually. Just curious if there is a recommended change cycle.

I change it every 2 weeks and flush the system with fresh water.
I add nutrients every week now that the plants are bigger.
I think the danger is if you don't change the solution, nutrients that are not taken up by the plnats will accumulate and mess up the nutrient balance + you get bacteria and algae build up.

[willard3]

How often you change nutrient is a function of reservoir volume/number of plants.

My general operating ratio is about 1.5 gal/plant and I change every two weeks. When the ratio is 3 gal/plant, I change every three weeks. When the ratio is 1 gal/plant or less, change every week. Constant nutrient ppm in all three tests.

The 1.5 gal/plant has worked best for me over the whole growth/fruiting cycle.

[P_Schneider]

Well my ratio comes out to 2.83 so it looks like I'm right on schedule at any rate. I swapped out the water and added some flora clean. I adjusted the ph down to where it was before the change but the ppm is around 300 so they have a little something to keep them going. I'll run like this for a couple days and then go back to the nutrients.
So far you guy's advice has been spot on and the plants are doing great so keep me honest here, will a couple days do it or should I run for a week or a complete 3 week cycle?

[telc]

Your plants look great. I would like to try to grow some peppers in a hydro setup.

The Aeroponic seems like a very simple design to build.

http://www.simplyhydro.com/images/aeroponics.gif

Instead of the sprayers, I would think you could use a Ultrasonic Mist Maker they can be bought fairly cheap ~$15. They sit in the water and use ultrasonic vibrations to make mist and fog rise out of the water. It would be quieter than a pump and less maintenance.

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2006-03,GGLG:en&q=mist+maker&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

[habman]

Welcome to thp TELC.
wow that's an old thread.
My plants looked good last year:cool: This year is crap!
I had a red spider mite infestation so I destroyed everything.
{note to self never bring plants that grew in the garden inside}
Now I'm having all kinds of problems this year.

Aeroponic is great but the easiest way to get started is with ebb & flow.