You MUST have an extreme sauce...

[thehotpepper.com]

If you are a hot sauce company, in my opinion, you MUST have an extreme sauce if you want to be talked about and frequented by chiliheads. This could be the key to your success. You may have some great flavorful, somewhat hot sauces, but chiliheads are likely to skip your product line entirely. Usually they will try the extreme sauce, and then look at what else you have to offer. If you are a small company that offers great flavorful sauces, and are wondering why they are not selling, try adding an extreme sauce, and let the chilihead community know about it. This is just my opinion! I am an observer, not a professional sauce maker.

[huvason]

If you are a hot sauce company, in my opinion, you MUST have an extreme sauce if you want to be talked about and frequented by chiliheads. This could be the key to your success. You may have some great flavorful, somewhat hot sauces, but chiliheads are likely to skip your product line entirely. Usually they will try the extreme sauce, and then look at what else you have to offer. If you are a small company that offers great flavorful sauces, and are wondering why they are not selling, try adding an extreme sauce, and let the chilihead community know about it. This is just my opinion! I am an observer, not a professional sauce maker.

Excellent point. I agree for the most part. Even though Fat Kid Sauces has an EXTREME, it is not what a true chili-head would call EXTREME. It is extreme for the masses, but not for a true Chili-head. We are working on a true chili-heaad extreme as we speak.

That being said, I have many chili-heads who LOVE my MEDIUM. Buy it buy the quarts, and soon the gallon.

[Cap'n Bones]

Hey Huv! When can I expect the sample of the Mango? While yer at it, go ahead and add the xxxxtreme sample! Please make my samples the gallon size. I have a really big spoon. Thanks man!

[Cap'n Bones]

If you are a hot sauce company, in my opinion, you MUST have an extreme sauce if you want to be talked about and frequented by chiliheads. This could be the key to your success. You may have some great flavorful, somewhat hot sauces, but chiliheads are likely to skip your product line entirely. Usually they will try the extreme sauce, and then look at what else you have to offer. If you are a small company that offers great flavorful sauces, and are wondering why they are not selling, try adding an extreme sauce, and let the chilihead community know about it. This is just my opinion! I am an observer, not a professional sauce maker.

Good point Admin. Btw, even if you're not a professional sauce maker (yet), you are a professional observer.

Have I told you that I have a prototype extract based sauce available? ;)

[marcosauces]

You Know THP..I agree with you BUT as for experience on all the shows we do, only 5% of the people asks for "gimme the hottest you got" so...it is worth spend the extra money for an extreme..?
We will see when the red savina salsa comes out...I will respond with a true answer to this thread then.

[thehotpepper.com]

Good point Admin. Btw, even if you're not a professional sauce maker (yet), you are a professional observer.

Have I told you that I have a prototype extract based sauce available? ;)

I want, I want! :)

You Know THP..I agree with you BUT as for experience on all the shows we do, only 5% of the people asks for "gimme the hottest you got" so...it is worth spend the extra money for an extreme..?
We will see when the red savina salsa comes out...I will respond with a true answer to this thread then.

The extreme buyers is a smaller percentage than the buyers of mild products, yes, but they are also loyal buyers who will try your whole product line if they like the extreme, and tell others about it, because they are chiliheads, but first you have to attract them. That's my point.

[marcosauces]

I understand what you saying THP, but would a chilihead go with a mild product after he tryed your hottest ?
I am not too sure about that....

[thehotpepper.com]

Of course! We all eat salsas, jalapeno sauces, sweet sauces, BBQ sauces...

[marcosauces]

But a true chilihead will tweak the mild with some extreme sauce, to make it hotter don't you think ?

[thehotpepper.com]

I'm not saying they are going to buy mild, I'm saying they will try all your hot products.

[marcosauces]

ok...all the hot yes, now im with you.

[Cap'n Bones]

I agree that the local show peeps do mostly look for the milder heat levels, and from my experience they are mostly female. My online buyers are a higher percentage male, and purchase the "hottest" we have. Two different markets. So yes it's worth the time and expense to produce a HOT product. Marco your Red Savina Salsa is a wonderful example of a very well balanced product for the chilehead crowd in my opinion. Lots of heat and flavor!
The admin is spot on with his analysis of the "chilehead" buyer's loyalty. Male and female make up this group of customers.

[marcosauces]

Yes Cap'n i agree and thats why it will be in manufacturing soon.
See we have experience with the locals, not many extreme ppl in there as you say. As far as the chilihead crowd, we will see right after the product goes retail, i hope you two are right..:)

[thehotpepper.com]

I agree that that salsa is your extreme product, so if I am correct, you have nothing to worry about. :) It's really good stuff!

[marcosauces]

Thank you guys...let's hope..:)

[thehotpepper.com]

Possible scenarios...

Chilihead 1: I heard Marco's Not Yet Famous Salsas are really good!

Chilihead 2: Really? I'll have to try them sometime.

Never orders.

OR

Chilihead 1: I heard Marco's Not Yet Famous Red Savina Salsa is the hottest you can get. It will burn your tongue off!

Chilihead 2: I don't believe that, salsas are never hot. I've got to try this!

Chilihead 1: How was that salsa?

Chilihead 2: Wow, now that's a salsa for a chilihead, and it was a quality product. I'm going to try the rest of his stuff.

Get them interested, sort of on a dare, when they realize you have quality products, they will order more. Chiliheads love heat, but also care about quality and like an array of products, you just have to draw them in with the heat.

[DevilDuck]

Well...what's "extreme"? I've got a pretty damn hot sauce, it's not "Dave's Insanity" hot, but it'll hold it's own...I think.

I gotta get my packages out for review........

[thehotpepper.com]

Well...what's "extreme"? I've got a pretty damn hot sauce, it's not "Dave's Insanity" hot, but it'll hold it's own...I think.

I gotta get my packages out for review........
Insanely hot. Are you going to call it "Hot" or have some slogan like "This sh*t will burn warts off toads"... the latter would be extreme. :onfire:

[DevilDuck]

Ok...now that's hot!

[DEFCON Creator]

Hmmmmm, I guess I am surrounded by mutants in NJ. A majority of our sales around here are for our extreme, the #1. We had such a calling for it this past year that we were alomost forced to double the size of the bottle AND make it 25% hotter. At the Fiery Foods show, by far, we gave out the most samples of the #1, and had the endless lemming wave of people with automatonic phrase, "Gimme the hottest you got", which I of course didn't mind doing.

[marcosauces]

Haha..you got mutants..i got lots of polititians..damn wosses..!!

[marcosauces]

Possible scenarios...

Chilihead 1: I heard Marco's Not Yet Famous Salsas are really good!

Chilihead 2: Really? I'll have to try them sometime.

Never orders.

OR

Chilihead 1: I heard Marco's Not Yet Famous Red Savina Salsa is the hottest you can get. It will burn your tongue off!

Chilihead 2: I don't believe that, salsas are never hot. I've got to try this!

Chilihead 1: How was that salsa?

Chilihead 2: Wow, now that's a salsa for a chilihead, and it was a quality product. I'm going to try the rest of his stuff.

Get them interested, sort of on a dare, when they realize you have quality products, they will order more. Chiliheads love heat, but also care about quality and like an array of products, you just have to draw them in with the heat.

THP, i am totally with you on this one, off course you don't know it until you try it....

[DEFCON Creator]

Haha..you got mutants..i got lots of polititians..damn wosses..!!

Hmmm, I always counted those 2 bodies of people as one.

[imaguitargod]

Hmmm, I always counted those 2 bodies of people as one.
Hey, I'm a mutant but am not a politicain, so there you go. There is a seperation.

[DEFCON Creator]

Hey, I'm a mutant but am not a politicain, so there you go. There is a seperation.

Hmmm, come to think of it, I am a bit of a mutant as well...But perhaps there isn't such a separation from the other body as I am seeking the title, "Future Ruler of Earth".:hell:

[marcosauces]

Hmmm, come to think of it, I am a bit of a mutant as well...But perhaps there isn't such a separation from the other body as I am seeking the title, "Future Ruler of Earth".:hell:

Would you became a politician as well..?

[DEFCON Creator]

Would you became a politician as well..?

Nope. Politicians, ALL OF THEM, are merely robbers we vote into office. I am merely a hot sauce manufacturer that enjoys watching others voluntarily cause themselves pain. :lol:

[kato]

I would like to jump in here late.

We've been around quite awhile seen lots of companies come and go in this industry and while we don't make an extreme hot sauce ( personal decision) I do see that companies that make extreme sauces do very well. But I also think with the growth of this industry just in the almost 10 years we've been doing it there is room for your more gourmet sauces or flavor before heat type sauces. We like to feature the different chiles in our products like green habaneros, scotch bonnets, etc.
In short I think there is a place for all types of sauces.

Just a quick example a few years back at the fiery food show Original Juan was introducing at the time the worlds hottest sauce
The source ( 7 million Scovilles) they were trying to get volunteers to try it and take your pic for an ad they had no takers. They even tried to recruit vendors still no takers.
I've also seen where if you don't have an extreme type sauce you get left in the dust.
Ok so not so quick example

Mick
Kato's

[cmpman1974]

7,000,000 SHUs.....NO THANkS! I love extreme heat, but I have common sense too. lol.

[chuk hell]

I've sampled THE SOURCE on a toothpick. Feels like your tongue is being pierced by red-hot metal.

VERY NICE!

[DEFCON Creator]

I've sampled THE SOURCE on a toothpick. Feels like your tongue is being pierced by red-hot metal.

VERY NICE!

Great fun at parties, fool your freinds! :hell:

[HotSauceGoonie]

If you are a hot sauce company, in my opinion, you MUST have an extreme sauce if you want to be talked about and frequented by chiliheads. This could be the key to your success. You may have some great flavorful, somewhat hot sauces, but chiliheads are likely to skip your product line entirely. Usually they will try the extreme sauce, and then look at what else you have to offer. If you are a small company that offers great flavorful sauces, and are wondering why they are not selling, try adding an extreme sauce, and let the chilihead community know about it. This is just my opinion! I am an observer, not a professional sauce maker.

I disagree. For the newbies to the field this is true. But they really aren't the ones dictating the market. The ones who repeat purchasing a good sauce are the ones who really are chiliheads. I have come across <b>Mild to Wild company</b> before their <u>Backdraft</u> product and I was always getting <u>Red Savina Garlic and Pure Arson </U> which aren't extract based sauces.

[DEFCON Creator]

With the drastic influx of newbies to this market, they could very well dictate the market.

[DevilDuck]

With the drastic influx of newbies to this market, they could very well dictate the market.

That depends on the success rate. The "old" established businesses aren't going anywhere. To become established in a local market takes a lot of work. I don't know how many people will want to continue after that for national recoginition.

[DEFCON Creator]

I'm not sure Goonie is talking about manufacturers or consumers, as the grammatical syntax left a bit to be desired. I am talking about the drastic increase of consumers.

[DevilDuck]

Well then, it's our job to steer them in the right direction!

[DEFCON Creator]

Well then, it's our job to steer them in the right direction!

I like the way you think!

[E.Z. Earl]

I would like to jump in here late.

We've been around quite awhile seen lots of companies come and go in this industry and while we don't make an extreme hot sauce ( personal decision) I do see that companies that make extreme sauces do very well. But I also think with the growth of this industry just in the almost 10 years we've been doing it there is room for your more gourmet sauces or flavor before heat type sauces. We like to feature the different chiles in our products like green habaneros, scotch bonnets, etc.
In short I think there is a place for all types of sauces.

Just a quick example a few years back at the fiery food show Original Juan was introducing at the time the worlds hottest sauce
The source ( 7 million Scovilles) they were trying to get volunteers to try it and take your pic for an ad they had no takers. They even tried to recruit vendors still no takers.
I've also seen where if you don't have an extreme type sauce you get left in the dust.
Ok so not so quick example

Mick
Kato's

As will always be the case with my opinions regarding the true business end of the hot "stuff" industry, I believe each maker has to start with a predetermined, well defined marketing plan. In other words, what is the targeted segment of the market. I read where Blair is putting hundreds of personal hours into making weird little bottles that sell for obviously over-inflated prices. Okay - for him. Meanwhile last week I sent 44 pallets (40,000 bottles) of Stirling Gourmet Syrups to Taiwan. REALLY OKAY - for me! If I get more serious about E.Z. EARL'S HOT SAUCES it is that type of market movement I want - pallets at wholesale, not bottles or cases at retail. Flat out I can never get there with "extremes'. Large market share is what it is all about to me. (if I decide to go for it!) - E.Z.

[E.Z. Earl]

With the drastic influx of newbies to this market, they could very well dictate the market.

I doubt it. They may influence one segment of the market, but the consumer market is too large to be dominated by one mind-set, be it "extreme-chiliheads" or "moderate chiliheads". A niche will always be available at some level into which a maker can push for "vertical market penetration" if he or she is capable of recognizing and exploiting the opening. - E.Z.

[Cap'n Bones]

As will always be the case with my opinions regarding the true business end of the hot "stuff" industry, I believe each maker has to start with a predetermined, well defined marketing plan. In other words, what is the targeted segment of the market. I read where Blair is putting hundreds of personal hours into making weird little bottles that sell for obviously over-inflated prices. Okay - for him. Meanwhile last week I sent 44 pallets (40,000 bottles) of Stirling Gourmet Syrups to Taiwan. REALLY OKAY - for me! If I get more serious about E.Z. EARL'S HOT SAUCES it is that type of market movement I want - pallets at wholesale, not bottles or cases at retail. Flat out I can never get there with "extremes'. Large market share is what it is all about to me. (if I decide to go for it!) - E.Z.

Some see Blair's collectibles as "overinflated", some see these works from Blair a total bargain considering the time and effort that goes into these bottles. These are indeed true "extreme" sauces created for a niche market, and when you take into account that he produced only 500 of the Firecracker 500's at $100.00 a pop, that's $50,000.00 for 500 bottles of sauce, so I really don't think that the niche market sould be so underestimated. Blair sells 1,000's of cases of his sauce's to the world, and still finds the time to cater to the niche market that got him where he is today.
Did the niche market of extreme hot sauces begin before or after the sudden increase of fiery foods that you now find in the common grocery stores? Sauces have been around for decades and we are blessed to live in a time where a small group of focused manufacturers are breaking new ground with intense heat, as well as creating flavorful sauces.

[E.Z. Earl]

Some see Blair's collectibles as "overinflated", some see these works from Blair a total bargain considering the time and effort that goes into these bottles. These are indeed true "extreme" sauces created for a niche market, and when you take into account that he produced only 500 of the Firecracker 500's at $100.00 a pop, that's $50,000.00 for 500 bottles of sauce, so I really don't think that the niche market sould be so underestimated. Blair sells 1,000's of cases of his sauce's to the world, and still finds the time to cater to the niche market that got him where he is today.
Did the niche market of extreme hot sauces begin before or after the sudden increase of fiery foods that you now find in the common grocery stores? Sauces have been around for decades and we are blessed to live in a time where a small group of focused manufacturers are breaking new ground with intense heat, as well as creating flavorful sauces.

As I said - okay for him, but not my idea of how to approach a the market as a new manufacturer. If that run is so great why did he just announce that he isn't going to do it next year because of the excess numbers of hours it take to build them? But, the real bottom line is that he identified his niche and went after it with a coordinated marketing program - exactly as I proposed. It worked for him. However, there are other niches and other methods of marketing that I believe will eventually lead to a larger market share, and in my world market share rules! That's just my personal opinion, of course. - E.Z.

[DevilDuck]

Well...how's a guy to market a quality product with quality (or organic) ingredients when everyone else seems to do the same?

What's to set me apart from..say...I dunno, Chuck Hell down the line if/when we get going? I mean, really?

Why do people buy French's Mustard as opposed to another brand? They have the same ingredients. They're both yellow and go good on a ham sandwich.

[E.Z. Earl]

Well...how's a guy to market a quality product with quality (or organic) ingredients when everyone else seems to do the same?

What's to set me apart from..say...I dunno, Chuck Hell down the line if/when we get going? I mean, really?

Why do people buy French's Mustard as opposed to another brand? They have the same ingredients. They're both yellow and go good on a ham sandwich.

In any competative market that will always be the challenge, DD. It starts with quality (from my personal perspective), but then the marketing program has to be well conceived, well integrated toward the target market niche (ie: chili-heads or cap-philes?), and then cleverly implimented. Of course, being well financed doesn't hurt either, if possible. The product promotion should support the product advertising and visa versa. Finally, plan to work damn hard, but it helps to be just plain lucky at times too!! - E.Z.

[marcosauces]

Luck is part of the business too. Flavorful sauces i think is the key, heat..yes, although per my personal experience, mild sauces with little heat they sell real well. The future...will see where it will take us.

[Cap'n Bones]

Since the topic of this thread is about Extreme sauces, the mention of Blair's collectibles fits right in. These little bottles are his unique way of setting himself apart from the rest of the gang, and Blair's sauces have received worldwide attention through The History channel, Food Network, and the Gunniess Book of world records, just to name a few. So I guess that it's safe to say that there is plenty of room for the "extreme" in this crazy biz that we call the Fiery Foods industry. He made a choice to be different than the mainstream, and it has paid off for him. Not everyone is into the extreme sauce and that's all well too.

BTW, it's none of my business why Blair is taking a break from the making of his reserve's, but we can rest assured that he will produce more in the future. I'll bet money that his little siesta from making these will increase demand, help raise the value on past reserve's, and bring higher profits to the future releases, not to mention more exposure to his regular line.

[E.Z. Earl]

Since the topic of this thread is about Extreme sauces, the mention of Blair's collectibles fits right in. These little bottles are his unique way of setting himself apart from the rest of the gang, and Blair's sauces have received worldwide attention through The History channel, Food Network, and the Gunniess Book of world records, just to name a few. So I guess that it's safe to say that there is plenty of room for the "extreme" in this crazy biz that we call the Fiery Foods industry. He made a choice to be different than the mainstream, and it has paid off for him. Not everyone is into the extreme sauce and that's all well too.

BTW, it's none of my business why Blair is taking a break from the making of his reserve's, but we can rest assured that he will produce more in the future. I'll bet money that his little siesta from making these will increase demand, help raise the value on past reserve's, and bring higher profits to the future releases, not to mention more exposure to his regular line.

Ah - I like the way you think Cap'n, but you mistate the intent of your thread. It says you "must" have an extreme. I personally agree with what Marcos just posted. You don't necessarily have to have an extreme unless your primary market is selling to "chili-philes", my term for consumers addicted to extracts. I am having a tremendous response to the balance of flavor and high heat in Blazin'-Hot Sauce without pushing it into the "extreme" level. I feel I am able to reach down the consumer pyramid therefore and tap into a much larger, broader consumer base - if I choose to do so. From long experience I know my success would be determined by the skill I utilized in pursueing the marketing campaign at this point. - E.Z.

PS: It's been a fun exchange of ideas, but I'm out of here now for Stirling's year-end meetings in Reno for a few days. Bye.

[Cap'n Bones]

Ah - I like the way you think Cap'n, but you mistate the intent of your thread. It says you "must" have an extreme. I personally agree with what Marcos just posted. You don't necessarily have to have an extreme unless your primary market is selling to "chili-philes", my term for consumers addicted to extracts. I am having a tremendous response to the balance of flavor and high heat in Blazin'-Hot Sauce without pushing it into the "extreme" level. I feel I am able to reach down the consumer pyramid therefore and tap into a much larger, broader consumer base - if I choose to do so. From long experience I know my success would be determined the skill utilized in pursueing the marketing campaign at this point. - E.Z.

PS: It's been a fun exchange of ideas, but I'm out of here now for Stirling's year-end meetings in Reno for a few days. Bye.

I agree with Marco as well, and most of the comments that have been posted here on this topic for that matter. Including your's EZ! :lol: When I read the original post by the Admin, I'm understanding it as a comment that directly implies that in order to penetrate the serious heat seeker market, then you must have a sauce that will be mind blowing hot, while having a desirable taste as well that will keep 'em coming back for more. I agree that the administrators use of the word "must", most likely doesn't apply the larger scale companies such as Tabasco and that lot of corporates. Although seeing these BIG guys that are now producing the Fiery Hab Dorito's and Tabasco producing, (or attempting to produce), hotter products, leads me to believe that they are recognizing the need for more heat among consumers. The small niche market of chileheads that frequent this forum have already figured this need out long ago. I think it's more of an addiction to Capsaicin, more so than just any particular extract. In general I think people are desiring more heat with the flavor..I enjoy all of the different points of view on this topic, because it goes to show that this HP group all have the potential to enter and prosper in the market with thier own unique ideas and products at many different levels. This is just my opinion, and I'm sure that in some way or another my opinion may change as my understanding of this market changes, however the fact that this fiery market is growing rapidly has me excited to see what the future holds for us ALL. I'm happy to be associated with such a dedicated bunch of folks that are as passionate as I am about this sort of stuff. Sorry to be so long winded!

[marcosauces]

Thats ok Cap'n, if we all had the same ideas, the sauce market would be boring :)

[DEFCON Creator]

Thats ok Cap'n, if we all had the same ideas, the sauce market would be boring :)

Agreed. Perhaps these types of discussions and opinions allow for such an eclectic mix of different types of products that are now available, and weren't 5 years ago. As I have stated before, we have an extreme sauce because there are many individuals who want seriosuly HOT wings. Hell, we, under pressure from many customers, seriously increased the hotness of our Defense Condition #1, AND doubled the size, and have received a ton of positive response. If we didn't have an "extreme" sauce, I think it would put us at a disadvantage, especially in the wing market. Besides, our "extreme" sauce brought us a Golden Chile this year as well, so perhaps my personal thoughts on this aren't so off the mark.

Extreme sauces of course are not for just anyone, but I feel there should be a choice. If people really enjoy a certain manufacturers products, the more of a selection not only appeases them and allows them to explore different ranges of heat, it allows the manufacturer the ability to explore more markets than if they didn't offer an "extreme" version. We are on the verge of releasing our Habanero Horseradish (The Habby Horse), and are already working on a more insanely hot version of it, just for this reason.

Opinions, for what they are worth are just that, and I think it gives others ideas as to where they should direct their energy towards expanding their own exposure, and gives more of a wide-open approach in a marketing direction.

[marcosauces]

Same here creator, lots of people are pressuring us to release hotter sauce and the red savina salsa. And yes we have to do it, because it will definitely widen our markets.
Got to love it being a saucemaker..:)

[DEFCON Creator]

Yup. What other job allows you to watch people voluntarily hurt themselves and come back for more?

[marcosauces]

LOL..the best Job..!!!

[Txclosetgrower]

The source ( 7 million Scovilles) they were trying to get volunteers to try it and take your pic for an ad they had no takers. They even tried to recruit vendors still no takers.
Mick
Kato's


I'd do it. Then bitch about it for weeks.

[Sickmont]

I'd do it for a couple of Bombay Sapphire martinis.:D

[E.Z. Earl]

Man, I see the debating rolled on just fine without me while I was gone. I need to catch up.

First, Cap,n, don't appologize for being long winded. It is a pleasure to get away from the clever little sound bites once in a while to share some serious thoughts (including differences of opinions) with others who are equallky passionate about their beliefs. A solid expression of opinion can't be delivered as a 1-liner.

Regarding DEFCON's comment about receiving requests to move into the even more extreme levels of heat, I believe that is a self-fulling prophicy. If a maker develops a product that is in the extreme range, then markets it to extreme chili-philes, it is only to be expected there will be requests for even more extreme heat. I guess I would make my point by saying that I focus on flavor 1st with 2 levels of heat - Hot & Extra Hot. I show at mainstream food shows, not the fiery food shows, and I promote them to chiliheads who are more moderate in their desire for pure heat. The result? - I am now fielding more requests from consumers who love the flavor but want a reduced heat level - "Spicy-Hot Stuff". BTW, that product is in the bottle and has been since I started. It will eventually be introduced to spearhead the expansion of my "vertical market penetration" into a market share expansion called "horizontal market penetration" In my case a self-fulfilling, self-directed, prophacy! - E.Z.

[thehotpepper.com]

When I posted this, I was really just trying to get a good conversation going. Would I make an extreme sauce if I went commercial? Who knows? There is a demographic that buys extreme things, it's males 15-30. The same males that buy eXtreme labeled deodorant and drink Mountain Dew because they see people drinking it as they jump off cliffs, lol. Is "extreme" gimmicky? Of course it is. I'm actually not talking about the gimmicky "extreme", but a quality, super hot product that will satisfy super heat seekers. Let me ask you this. How may times have you bought a hot sauce with an intense label and fiery name and thought it was not hot enough. Seriously! A lot, I bet! If you have one that satisfies in your arsenal, they'll pick it. If you don't, they'll move on. That's all I'm saying. Heat matters!

[marcosauces]

THP..off course heat matters..but the question still is..extreme?
or just hot..? ..:)

[E.Z. Earl]

When I posted this, I was really just trying to get a good conversation going. Would I make an extreme sauce if I went commercial? Who knows? There is a demographic that buys extreme things, it's males 15-30. The same males that buy eXtreme labeled deodorant and drink Mountain Dew because they see people drinking it as they jump off cliffs, lol. Is "extreme" gimmicky? Of course it is. I'm actually not talking about the gimmicky "extreme", but a quality, super hot product that will satisfy super heat seekers. Let me ask you this. How may times have you bought a hot sauce with an intense label and fiery name and thought it was not hot enough. Seriously! A lot, I bet! If you have one that satisfies in your arsenal, they'll pick it. If you don't, they'll move on. That's all I'm saying. Heat matters!

I could hear you chuckling in the background as your thread rolled on, and I love it!! Right - heat matters to a degree, or as my marketing tag line states: "Heat is neat BUT savor the flavor!" A gourmet quality flavor always has to lead the way in my food businesses. Heat can never be the lead Husky on the team, and, of course, I always know where I want the sled to go. That's my job. - E.Z.

[DEFCON Creator]

And when you have an extreme product WITH flavor to back it up, well, you've have a product that will satisfy most. If it doesn't have flavor, you'll sell 1 bottle to 1 person, and that's it. Considering our extreme #1 is quickly catching up in repeat sales with the rest of the line, I think we've done something rather well here. Our line of products is kind of a niche market, and started off as just a wing sauce. People expect wings to pack some heat, as is witnessed at nearly every restaurant that serves them. However, people now use our stuff on virtually everything, from asparagus to popcorn, which isa something I never thought would happen. At all the events we do, it's a Hell of a lot of fun watching people devour the #1 wings, and then take a few bottles home with them for their friends, whilst dripping sweat off their brow, and adorning their cheeks with the red racing stripes, and the occasional hiccup.

The same is with our next product, the Habby Horse. People expect horseradish to take their breath away for a short time, which I of course don't mind helping them do. The dropkick to the back of the throat with capsaicin is just an added bonus. We're already working on a "hot" version of the horseradish. My wife won't even enter the room without a respirator when I'm playing around with that stuff, LOL!

These "chili-philes" as was mentioned are a larger group than I ever expected. Yeah, we sell a ton of the milds and mediums, but more and more of our customer base are taking that leap of faith to the next level. Many customer mix and match our stuff, so as to bring the level of heat to exactly their liking, which is kind of unique in this market.

The Defcon Days we do have brought us an amazing amount of exposure. Not to just those who attend, but to their friends and family. Chile-philes are growing in number, and I truly expect this growth to maintain for the foreseeable future.

[Blue's]

Hey E. Z.

It sounds like you have your marketing act together. I would sure like to know how you got in the Taiwan market????

My Blue's Carolina Pepper Sauce is in approximately 90 markets including 29 high end grocers. I've got to tell you, the sauce does not sell well in the grocers. They won't build a display and promote it and the consumer won't pickup a new product without sampling it first. You can do demos in the stores, but it ends up costing you money to sell your product.

My profitability comes from gallons to restaurants. Not great money but very consistant and it keeps me in the black.

My web sales are slow because most folks won't pay 6 bucks for shipping and I can't blaim them. I do sell a lot of cases to big sauce companies like Peppers and Insane Chicken. You are on the money as far as selling quantity. If I can ever sell pallets, I'll make serious money. Selling single bottles or just cases takes time and Fedex makes all the money.

My products are not very hot and that's what I am after. Once a customer tries my sauces, 90% of them become repeat buyers. The big quetion is how do you get the world to try your product?????

Blue's
www.bluesbbq.net

[kato]

THP,

Good job on getting folks to really let their passions for this biz shine.


I agree with E.Z. doing more non fiery shows is the key you'll find a bigger market. When you do the fiery food show or the zesty food show you have to compete with 200 other sauce makers for the few buyers. After you have gotten Peppers and Hot Shots there is not much left.

As you all know if not well established folks will need to try your product before they buy. What we have done for years is give away tons of samples not really profitable. But still you get your products in front of people.

We here at Kato's is still trying and will continue to try and find that 1 product to put us ahead.
We thought we found it in our #1 seller Kato's Habanero Chocolate Bars but that is still a niche market. As consumers continue to see fiery products as a niche I think that will slow our growth as an industry. What needs to happen is find your niche and try and be on top.

Mick
Kato's

[E.Z. Earl]

Hey E. Z.

It sounds like you have your marketing act together. I would sure like to know how you got in the Taiwan market????

My Blue's Carolina Pepper Sauce is in approximately 90 markets including 29 high end grocers. I've got to tell you, the sauce does not sell well in the grocers. They won't build a display and promote it and the consumer won't pickup a new product without sampling it first. You can do demos in the stores, but it ends up costing you money to sell your product.

My profitability comes from gallons to restaurants. Not great money but very consistant and it keeps me in the black.

My web sales are slow because most folks won't pay 6 bucks for shipping and I can't blaim them. I do sell a lot of cases to big sauce companies like Peppers and Insane Chicken. You are on the money as far as selling quantity. If I can ever sell pallets, I'll make serious money. Selling single bottles or just cases takes time and Fedex makes all the money.

My products are not very hot and that's what I am after. Once a customer tries my sauces, 90% of them become repeat buyers. The big quetion is how do you get the world to try your product?????

Blue's
www.bluesbbq.net

Wow - answering that question would take two pages or more. I guess the best explanation is to say that I evolved into the international markets. In 1991 my entire inventor of syrup consisted of 1 pallet of a mixture of flavors (12) totalling 900 bottles. I was selling wholesale by the case, and on-line marketing was unheard of at the time. I launched national advertising in coffee journal, I picked up my first distributer in Spokane, the next one in Washington DC, and then a third one in North Pole Alaska (he is still buying from me because of our quality). That defined the domestic market book-ends pretty well. I began doing more coffee/espresso trade shows, then for the last ten years have won the Chef's of America (ATI) Gold Medal for Best of Show (no 2nd or 3rd place medal is awarded). I worked a piggy-back deal with a large espresso coffee roaster who sold into Taiwan, then picked-up a coffee importer there and structured a very commplicated, difficult agreement that allowed him to be competitive. That has taken the better part of 8 years to grow, but we are now the number one syrup in Taiwan. We even have McDonald's over there. My distributor is now moving into main-land China and beginning to open that market. I worked about the same plan with Greece where we are also number one. I sell in a dozen other nations from South Afrika to Indonesia to Europe as well. Through all this Stirling still remains the smallest of the five main coffee syrup brands - by design!

IF, I were younger and IF I decided to work that hard again to move the hot sauces, I would impliment the same basic approach. If it's not broken, don't fix it - right? As it is, I am playing off the huge Gold Medal win for Best of Show at the NW Restaurant Show, and piggy-backing off the distribution efforts of Stirling. It is a nice retirement busy-box project for me to play with. IF it explodes, Stirling will then take over and work the problem, and I will remain the icon-figure in the marketing program.

I could not hve done it (syrups or Hot Stuff) without the Gold Medal winning quality, however. It is the gas in the tank that make the vehicle run. Where runs to depends upon you as the driver.

Whew! Anybody still out there reading this? :) - E.Z.

[Sickmont]

Whew! Anybody still out there reading this? :) - E.Z.

Yes. I find this to be very informative and interesting reading. Thank you for the time you've spent here answering questions and doling out some advice. And that goes for all the sauce makers on here who've managed to make it work for them. I read all the business posts here for just those aforementioned reasons.

[E.Z. Earl]

Yes. I find this to be very informative and interesting reading. Thank you for the time you've spent here answering questions and doling out some advice. And that goes for all the sauce makers on here who've managed to make it work for them. I read all the business posts here for just those aforementioned reasons.

Your most welcome. You can thank THP for this, I think. He seems to run a BLOG site that has a tendency to accomodate more serious (somewhat longer) discussions among interested parties, as well as the fun & funny sound bites. The participants seem to be able to exchange opposing points of view without it beoming a heated arguement. I sort of picture THP with a striped shirt & whistle as he guides things along. Well done THP!

Any advice I can pass along to anyone who is interested is my pleasure. Just remember, my advice may be worth no more than what you paid for it! :lol: I sure as hell have made as many errors in business as I have done things right. - E.Z.

[DEFCON Creator]

Earl, you gonna come by the Fiery Foods show in Albuquerque in March, or do I have to wait until Montana to drink with you?

[E.Z. Earl]

Earl, you gonna come by the Fiery Foods show in Albuquerque in March, or do I have to wait until Montana to drink with you?

Looks like the Kickin' Horse Saloon in Montana, Dude! Hope old Doc is alive and kickin' there too. - E.Z.

[marcosauces]

I sure as hell have made as many errors in business as I have done things right. - E.Z.

Welcome to the club E.Z..! :)

[tinner666]

I also think each company should have an extreme sauce. Blair's is known for his reserve and Jersey Deaths. But lots of people look to see what else he has and end up going to the 'Heat' or Original Death' for flavor. Dave is known for his Insanity Sauces, but I sell cases of his Ginger Peach.
And bottom line is this: Grocery store shelves are heavily stocked with $1.48 Steak Sauces, BBQ Sauces, And $.98 to $2.99 hot sauces, including Marie Sharp's.
The Extreme 'lines' create a 'name/gimmick/recognition factor. I loved Marco's Salsas and so did a ALL the tasters that sampled them, but they all went to the store to buy $2.00 salsas. I found that I don't have enough salesmanship to sell some items. The same people would buy a bottle of Final Answer for $30.00.

[marcosauces]

Yep, sometimes that's the way it goes....

[E.Z. Earl]

I also think each company should have an extreme sauce. Blair's know for his reserve and Jersey Deaths. But lots of people look to see what else he has and end up going to the 'Heat' or Original Death' for flavor. Dave is known for his Insanity Sauces, but I sell cases of his Ginger Peach.
And bottom line is this: Grocery store shelves are heavily stocked with $1.48 Steak Sauces, BBQ Sauces, And $.98 to $2.99 hot sauces, including Marie Sharp's.
The Extreme 'lines' create a 'name/gimmick/recognition factor. I loved Marco's Salsas and so did a ALL the tasters that sampled them, but they all went to the store to buy $2.00 salsas. I found that I don't have enough salesmanship to sell some items. The same people would buy a bottle of Final Answer for $30.00.

Anyone who thinks they can take on Kraft and their brands at their prices in the retail grocer market is simply cruisin'-for-a-bruisin' ! But that doesn't mean a maker has to jump to an extreme either. I carefully evaluated where the mainstream products fall out of bed on flavor and heat then moved my sauces into the next niche up from there. That is "extreme" compared to the average, but it keeps me within a solid 9-iron of a still very large consumer base. I view the market as a giant pyramid that is divided into several progressively smaller layers of consumers. The extreme "chili-philes" in the fiery food market make up the tip of the pyramid - about 7% of the total market. The huge lower 67% of the market is the domain of the giants. I am working to bracket that 26% remaining between the two extremes. Once I have achieved vertical penetration with my hottest (Blazin'-Hot Stuff) and middle of the road Smokin'-Hot Stuff, I will then initiate horizontal market penetration by sitting down on the giant's domain with my mildest (Spicy-Hot Stuff(TM)) for which I am already receiving requests. That shold give me ample market potential to make me :) all the way to the bank! - E.Z.

[Arizona Jack]

Hello THP blog
Thank you for providing such a serious and educational forum for mfgr's and chiliheads alike. We are small and not well known yet, but I'll throw in my two cents, from my perspective.
I have been making beef jerky for years, a true jerky addict. After a friends trip to Belize, and my introduction to Marie Sharps when he brought me bottles back, I started making habanero jerky. Untill then, I was a regular Franks / Tobasco guy. My first taste of Habanero and I was hooked.
It did not take long for me to run out of Maries, so I started to make our own habanero sauce, just for the jerky. Soon after, friends and co-workers encouraged me to start selling it. Instant hit. We were also asked to bottle the suace seperatly, and we started just filling any old empty bottle they would bring.
In Feb 04 I set up an ebay account and thought who would be crazy enough to buy hot sauce or jerky on Ebay? Tons of folks were ! 1200+ feedbacks later, it has become a business. This new year ( 2007) we will soon start copacking our jerky, as we want nothing to do with the USDA, too much $$$$ and too many headaches. Getting the recipe into a copackable product has taken time and effort, but were ready to go.
That brings us to topic on this thread.
Our customers are fiercly loyal, and word of mouth has us doing very well. The hot sauce has taken off and we have expanded our line dramatically. With a new website this last year, and minimal local advertising, I have hired our 1st full time employee, my son in law.
Now the EXTREME sauce thing.
I myself do not at all like extract sauces, in my opinion, the extract ruins any taste. We now make 2 versions of it due to market demand, but it is not a sauce I eat myself. However, because of customer demand, they are both steady, but not high volume sellers.
In my opinion, just a great Red Savina, such as Cape Fear, Fat Kids Extreme, Mild to Wild's Pure Arson, CaJohns Ace, and our own Red DITD ( Death in the Desert) is hot enough for the chilihead. Nothing can beat a great, fresh, Red Savina.
Another ( perhaps uneducated and greenhorn ) opinion is that I have seen Blairs prices level off and even drop as of late. Market saturation? I am far too inexperienced at the nuances of the hobby to coment, but I do watch ebay regularly. It is obvious to me things are changing.
In sumation, Hard core chiliheads go for the hottest you have, then word spreads, and you gain non heat seeker's as well. I am proof positive of a small mom & pop maker, that has ridin this trend to success. I have no expectations, but this is sure a fun ride to be on.
Ez Earl, TracyC, Defcon Creator, Marcos, you are all success stories, and I hope to join you all some day as a reconizable figure in this crazy industry. Jim Campbell told me long ago, get into this to make hot sauce, not to make money. I will let 3 years of sales that double each year guide me. 2007 looks to be fantastic. I wish everybody in the pepper business a banner year and heath, wealth and wisdom. Throw in a little burn as well.
Merry Christmas from SuperSpicy.com.

[DEFCON Creator]

Well said AJ, and thanks for the kudos. Last September, in my 24 drive-by to Zest Fest, Jim told me the same thing. Hot sauce is not an overnight success, and a vast majority of us in this business started with only an idea and a dream. Taking out our first business loan for a concept was quite an emotional thing. We had no industry experience, no contacts, no bank roll to use as a safety net, nothing. It was through sheer hard work (more of a passion), and a determination to keep going. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, and look forward to meeting up in NM.

[marcosauces]

Very true AJ and Creator, 2007 is to look forward and good luck to all of US..:)

[E.Z. Earl]

A.J. - Pleased to see you check in on this thread. It has been an interesting one so far. THP is to be commended for managing a BLOG that seems to serve as a venue that promotes a lively exchange of ideas and opinion - some diametrically opposed - while retaining the respect for the person holding opposing views.

It was fun to read your historical recap. Undoubtedly you have broken the eggs and are now well on your way to creating your own special omlette! I love being, and being around, entrepreneurs. They, in my opinion, are the most special of business types - persons who can take a blank pad and create an enterprise. I have found that most such creators (settle DEFCON!) are persons motivated by the project versus the amassing of wealth. If successful an entrpreneur will undoubtedly attract money, for that is an entrepreneurs scoreboard, but enevitably it is mostly about the success of the venture.

You are obviously well on your way in your own style. I would, however, offer one word of caution. Keep a close eye on the 50% growth rate. As your volume grows you may want to scale that back into the 20's. Remember the "Rule of 72" - anything that compoundss at 7.2% will double every 10 years. Thus, 14.4% = five years; 28.8% = 2.5 year; etc. That growth has to be funded and it can get hairy if it breaks through the ceiling of your "critical growth path".

Best of luck on your continueing success. If I can ever throw in my 2 cents worth on anything, please ask. As my Nancy likes to put it, "Everyone is entitled to E.Z.'s opinion!" :lol: -E.Z.

[Arizona Jack]

EZ,
Your advise is well understood. Please keep in mind however, for us, a doubling in sales means selling 2000 bottles in 2006 versus 1000 in 05, and 350 in 04. LOL, I saw in this post you sold how many pallets? I am but a small fish in a Great Lake.
:mouthonfire:

[E.Z. Earl]

EZ,
Your advise is well understood. Please keep in mind however, for us, a doubling in sales means selling 2000 bottles in 2006 versus 1000 in 05, and 350 in 04. LOL, I saw in this post you sold how many pallets? I am but a small fish in a Great Lake.
:mouthonfire:

Right - but in 1991 I sold only 75 cases in my second month on the market with the syrups. The next few years I had to fund a 1,000% growth, then 550%, then 200%+, etc. I was in hock $424,000 before I turned the corner and began to run in the black! Today, as a multi-million dollar syrup company I still manage a very comfortable 5 to 15% growth rate. The stress of the excess growth rates in the first five years damn near killed me. Flat out I was lucky the company survived too. All I am saying is be sure you establish a "critical growth path" that is consistent with what you can financially support over the long haul.

[marcosauces]

Well.....let me tell you E.Z. your HOT BBQ is a hit in my restaurant..!!!! More sauce request coming soon..!!!

[DevilDuck]

I'm thankful that there are some people in the biz on this site that are willing to share tips, not only in sauce making, but on the business side as well. If I was going at this alone, I wouldn't know where to turn or what to do.

I had my 1st review over at www.thehotzoneonline.com the other week and it got a not so good review (Passow, your's will be arriving soon...I promise!!). I don't think it was used on the right foods, but that's what I got and I take it for face value. One person's opinion of what I make. I do understand that I will never be able to make everyone think I make the best sauce on the planet (maybe the funkiest) but then again, I'm still new to making sauces and I understand there's a little tweaking to do.

Hopefully, with a little luck, I'll be able to enter this market and do well enough (and grow slow enough) to only use the black ink. This year looks to be good. Stay tuned!

[DEFCON Creator]

DD, I wish you luck in your endeavor. You seem to have a pretty good grasp on what the realities are in the industry. This business is not a get rich niche, slow and steady will win you the race.

[imaguitargod]

I (Passow, your's will be arriving soon...I promise!!).
Still checking the mail box.... ;)

[Cap'n Bones]

DD, in order to get a good grasp on what others think of your sauce you need to send out many samples for feedback. If the majority of the folks that give you feedback doesn't like a certain element of your sauce, then maybe a change is needed. If the feedback is 50/50, then in my opinion, you're headed in the right direction.

[E.Z. Earl]

DD - I suggest you do what I have done for years. Take your rejection in smaller doses! I have developed into a pretty fair camp cook, but I still work my new formulas through a small team of tasters who advise me of how it needs to be tweeked. Only after I get a score of 100% (settle for nothing less!) I take it out onto a bigger stage. This is how I scored the Gold Medal for BEST OF SHOW at the NWFS show this year for my Blazin'-Hot Stuff. So, pull together a group of 5 of 6 and take your input and rejections from them before you hit the BLOGS. - E.Z.

[E.Z. Earl]

Well.....let me tell you E.Z. your HOT BBQ is a hit in my restaurant..!!!! More sauce request coming soon..!!!

:party: That is exciting, Marco. I love to hear about any chili-head who digs my sauces, but it is really special to me when a commercial user gets off on them. Thanks!! - E.Z.

[marcosauces]

DD,
that was NOT a "not so good review", they stated that the sauce is good but needs some "tweaking".
Now, it took us over 3-4 months of tweakings and testings to make it right (mostly for consistency) for the retail market, but i was making the sauce for over 6 years in my own kitchen.
Also remember co-packers offer a first trial run...DO IT..!! after that do the final tweaking...just my advice...hope this helps.
Marco

[DevilDuck]

Well, my Z-car club loves the stuff! I can't make enough of it for them.

Maybe I just read the wrong things into the review. I personally wouldn't put it on/in marinara. Maybe the olive oil threw him for a loop.

Anyway--
Just taking my time and doing things right.

[E.Z. Earl]

Well, my Z-car club loves the stuff! I can't make enough of it for them.

Maybe I just read the wrong things into the review. I personally wouldn't put it on/in marinara. Maybe the olive oil threw him for a loop.

Anyway--
Just taking my time and doing things right.

:idea: Sounds like you have the makings of your taste-tester team right there, DD. Have you ever considered asking them to do a blind review of what they like most (and least) about your sauce? It might be revealing, and it could well allow your to I.D. the tweaking that will move it up from good to better then to top-drawer. Live or die by R.D! - E.Z.

[DevilDuck]

Yeah, but we post up a a forum kinda like this one. Everyone's really cool and I don't mind knowing who likes what. People's taste vary.

I held a compition for them to name my sauces. The winner got a free bottle. Since we call ourselves "Pirate Bastards" they tend to give me names that have to do with twisted pirate stuff. Hence, "Nuclear Scurvy" and "Barnacle Remover".

[Cap'n Bones]

Yeah, but we post up a a forum kinda like this one. Everyone's really cool and I don't mind knowing who likes what. People's taste vary.

I held a compition for them to name my sauces. The winner got a free bottle. Since we call ourselves "Pirate Bastards" they tend to give me names that have to do with twisted pirate stuff. Hence, "Nuclear Scurvy" and "Barnacle Remover".
"Pirate Bastards"? Humm, now that's interesting..

[E.Z. Earl]

"Pirate Bastards"? Humm, now that's interesting..


I thought all pirates were bastards?! - E.Z.

[Cap'n Bones]

I thought all pirates were bastards?! - E.Z.

:lol: Thanks man!

Hey EZ, I posted yer pic over on the chat room thread..:P

[darthcarl]

I had my 1st review over at www.thehotzoneonline.com the other week and it got a not so good review


An old caterer addage paraphrased "The only review that matters is how fast the bottle emptied."

[HotSauceGoonie]

I'm not sure Goonie is talking about manufacturers or consumers, as the grammatical syntax left a bit to be desired. I am talking about the drastic increase of consumers.

First of all I think we have to agree upon what is considered EXTREME.. To us I think we all agree it is an EXTRACT based sauce that is fairly hot.

I think this appeals to the newbies beause it helps spread word of mouth when they tell their friends "Hey Man, this is the hottest sauce ever, you have to try it." Many newbies will quote this for example when 1st trying Dave's Regular Insanity Sauce for example.

However, for us true chiliheads that know the truth does a company really need this? For example...

Marie Sharp's Comatose considered Extreme? I don't think so
Dan Cash Radical Heat? I dont think so


Cheers,

[DEFCON Creator]

Many individuals seek only heat, which many extract sauces only deliver on. It takes a lot of work to reel in the taste of extract, keeping the heat up, and infuse it with flavor.

[HotSauceGoonie]

Many individuals seek only heat, which many extract sauces only deliver on. It takes a lot of work to reel in the taste of extract, keeping the heat up, and infuse it with flavor.

That is why I am hoping that Defcon sauces become my new choice for wings after this Sunday!

[DEFCON Creator]

That is why I am hoping that Defcon sauces become my new choice for wings after this Sunday!

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. We'll also have plenty for purchase available, save yourself the shipping.

[HotSauceGoonie]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. We'll also have plenty for purchase available, save yourself the shipping.

You got it.. I am just hoping you have the 0 available as well.. I am looking to get all of them..

[DEFCON Creator]

I won't have any ZERO for sale, but will bring my private stash for tasting. The next Batch of ZERO will be available sometime around April. It takes about 3-4 months to make the stuff.

[HotSauceGoonie]

I won't have any ZERO for sale, but will bring my private stash for tasting. The next Batch of ZERO will be available sometime around April. It takes about 3-4 months to make the stuff.

Geez, how come so long? Well let me know when you have some for sale, because I really want to try it..

Will you have ONE for sale this weekend?

[DEFCON Creator]

Basically because it all hand-made, with no machines or chemicals. With various distillations and semi-fermentations, we just have to let Nature do Her thing at Her own pace.

[HotSauceGoonie]

Basically because it all hand-made, with no machines or chemicals. With various distillations and semi-fermentations, we just have to let Nature do Her thing at Her own pace.

I was thinking you were doing distillation extraction method.. Reminds me of organic chem. labs.. lol Hated them!! My percent yields sucked.. Don't have me making your sauces.. :-) Will there ever be a Defcon -1 is what I am wondering? LOL

[DEFCON Creator]

Maybe, haven't decided yet. The next Batch of ZERO will be exponentially hotter than the previous as we found (by accident) a method to concentrate it.

[imaguitargod]

Maybe, haven't decided yet. The next Batch of ZERO will be exponentially hotter than the previous as we found (by accident) a method to concentrate it.

:shocked: Damn, now I have something ELSE of yours that I will have to beg and pled and hope for?

[HotSauceGoonie]

:shocked: Damn, now I have something ELSE of yours that I will have to beg and pled and hope for?

Nice I will be waiting

[E.Z. Earl]

Now the EXTREME sauce thing.
I myself do not at all like extract sauces, in my opinion, the extract ruins any taste.

A.J. - Here is what I discoved regarding this comment. I conducted a tasted-tesing comparison against a couple of dozen famous and not so famous (not you Marco!) hot sauces ranging from Tabasco up to ones you hear from in the various BLOGs, who will remain un-named. The bottom line is we found most of the makers utilizing extracts as a heat ingredient have not first leaned how to formulate a quality recipe for the sauce base. Thus the taste, and worse the smell ( btw 76% of a human's taste experience in in the olfactory system) of the extracts when added dominate the finished product. I can say the same about vinegar.

Have you logged in to my Branding Iron Foods site yet to request a taster sample of Blazin'-Hot Sauce? If not, please do. I would like you to taste what I mean. My first ingredient is vinegar, but it doesn't stand out in the nose or flavor. I use a special blend of extracts and essential chili oils to gain a high heat, but it doesn't stick out in the nose or flavor. Why? Because the base sauce is a very complicated, well developed recipe that can stand up to vinegar and extracts!

My point here is the same drum I have been beating since I first joined - potential new makers (and some old ones) need to do better R&D, especially in the use of a tricky ingredient like chili extract. Success is marketing! Marketing begins with well done R&D! - E.Z.

[DEFCON Creator]

I have to agree with Earl on this one. Extract is indeed a tricky little fellow. Alone, the standard industrial-made extract tastes nasty at best, and can permeate the flavor of a product quite easily. It took us a while to figure out how to avoid that from happening, and with our Defense Condition #1 I think we've accomplished just that. Also, when playing around with the stuff, please take care to protect yourself from it, it's quite unforgiving.

[HotSauceGoonie]

I have to agree with Earl on this one. Extract is indeed a tricky little fellow. Alone, the standard industrial-made extract tastes nasty at best, and can permeate the flavor of a product quite easily. It took us a while to figure out how to avoid that from happening, and with our Defense Condition #1 I think we've accomplished just that. Also, when playing around with the stuff, please take care to protect yourself from it, it's quite unforgiving.

If I am there Sunday which it seems that way as of now I will be purchasing Defcon 1.. If its great as it seems to be from the feedback, you can be sure to add me on your list of consumers for 0 when its ready.

Cheers

[E.Z. Earl]

Also, when playing around with the stuff, please take care to protect yourself from it, it's quite unforgiving.

:shocked: Ah, yes - you quickly learn to wash your hands both BEFORE and after hitting the head (even if you are wearing poly gloves) - E.Z.

[HotSauceGoonie]

You boys dont have to tell me about it.. I where contacts.. It has happened one too many times... lol Now I am basically down to scrubbing them.. lol

[DEFCON Creator]

:shocked: Ah, yes - you quickly learn to wash your hands both BEFORE and after hitting the head (even if you are wearing poly gloves) - E.Z.

Lol. Agreed, it puts a little more pep in your step.:mouthonfire:

[HotSauceGoonie]

Lol. Agreed, it puts a little more pep in your step.:mouthonfire:

LOL when it gets in my eyes I am only getting a pep to the water faucet.. hehe

[DEFCON Creator]

Put a little sugar in the water, it helps.

[HotSauceGoonie]

Put a little sugar in the water, it helps.

I am just more careful now, lol.. Scrub my hands real well.. If it does happen it is painful but normally water does it. I just scrub now and watch the sides of my bottles.

[BigDawg]

DD - I have developed into a pretty fair camp cook, but I still work my new formulas through a small team of tasters who advise me of how it needs to be tweeked.

I work with 5 other guys on shift at the Fire Station and I am considered "the cook", I run all my "good" and "bad" experiments by them before I even think of marketing anything. Works out great...big believer in what E.Z. is saying.